What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 261 through 280 (of 858 total)
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  • #777038
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Yes Mike I put it back to allow one level of replies and to put the latest conversation at the top. I did this for 3 reasons. 

    1. No one used it when I made it flat like the forum because the links to latest comments didn’t work for a start. They work now that I have put it back to how it was.
    2. It took the posts out of their conversational context because they didn’t flow in the right direction of the conversation.
    3. The existing posts didn’t make much sense because they were not connected to the post they were replying to.

    There is also extra functionality with the icons below.

    When the forum merged with the site, I will make it the same as the forum is now, i.e., latest post on the last page at the bottom, so the conversation can be read in context too.

    🙂

    #777039
    Admin
    Keymaster

    If we believe in the Trinity Doctrine, then we are forced to doubt many scriptures including the words of our Lord.

    Jesus said, “eternal life is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    #777040
    DavidL
    Participant

    yes terraricca – that is the most important thing to understand and the real underlying issue behind these debates because every cult and every denomination will try and convince you that they are presenting you with the truth..and they all use THEIR interpretation of Scripture to deceive you.

    These days spiritual discernment is literally an endangered species because so very few people have a heart relationship with their Bible… but we CAN know – and in fact we ARE CALLED to discern between the true and the false..but you MUST have the HOLY Spirit active in your daily life..!!
    We cannot determine what is or isn’t true simply by relying on our own ‘common sense’ or our human understanding – truth is SPIRITUALLY discerned..!!

    #777041
    DavidL
    Participant

    The apostle John tells us not to believe everything, but to test the SPIRITS because not everything that claims to be of God..is actually from God..!! This is a spiritual exercise that calls us to SEE with our spiritual eyes – the eyes of our heart…John says, the spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is of God…so what does this mean…?

    Well it doesn’t mean to compare doctrine with Scripture – that is the way of the Pharisees (those who CLAIM to know the truth and yet in fact actively oppose it..!!), what it means is to prayerfully ‘look’ at the overall confession..does it manifest the characteristics of Christ when He walked the earth..? See, there are really only two spirits in the world – the spirit of Christ [truth] and the spirit of Antichrist [deception]..and in this you are looking at the ‘fruit’ that is presented..does it testify to the life of Jesus Christ, or not..!!??

    What helped me understand this is where it says in Hebrews 11 about Able, “..he being dead yet speaks.” – Able was murdered by his own older brother because he offered an acceptable offering to God..so what is it that still speaks to us today..? do you see that Able’s spirit ‘confesses’ to the life Jesus lived in the flesh – Jesus Christ, who was murdered by the jealous religious Pharisees simply because His life was an acceptable offering to God – and theirs wasn’t..!!

    #777042
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Spirit of truth is hated and rejected by the religious spirit, because the truth always exposes their self-righteous deceptions – outwardly (like the Pharisees) they have an ‘appearance’ of wisdom – they seem right, but when the light comes it reveals all the hidden corruption of those that are religious hypocrites.

    #777043
    DavidL
    Participant

    getting through to you guys is like trying to convert Pharisees – (something even Jesus couldn’t do)…!!

    you say you hear His voice here loud and clear…and you think you understand, but if you really knew the one true God (like this verse you use) and Jesus Christ whom He sent…you wouldn’t be denying the Trinity..!! you are doing what all cults do – quoting Scripture to justify your dead doctrine..yet your deceptive arguments only prove that you have not the Spirit of Christ – instead you are manifesting the same spirit of unbelief as the blind Pharisees – who likewise thought they could see…

    “If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty,” Jesus replied. “But you remain guilty because you claim to see.” – John 9:41

    #777044
    DavidL
    Participant

    you are a fraud – you claim to trust Scripture when you don’t…!!

    what you do is ‘USE’ Scripture to justify your own ideas, and when you strike a verse that doesn’t fit in with your ideas, you make the mistake of trying to change Scripture (instead of letting Scripture change your thoughts)…and so you promote your false teaching the same way all cults do…by ‘using’ Scripture..!!

    #777045
    Admin
    Keymaster

    What you are really saying here David is that when a man becomes Born Again, he understands that Jesus is part of a Trinity God right. Hence, this is a demonstration of the very meaning of the word occult because it means that which is hidden or hidden knowledge.

    Whereas what we are saying is that the Bible teaches that there is one God the Father and he is the only true God and he sent his son to save us. He was the one that made his son both Lord and Messiah.

    So do we believe what is clearly stated in scripture, or do we take your word for it that what is hidden is revealed? I choose to believe that which is clearly stated in scripture, as the truth, as opposed to some hidden Trinity truth that can only come by some so-called special revelation. The latter is how the occult works.

    When Jesus was tempted of the Devil, Jesus defended himself by using scripture. It is written… Hence I will do the same. When a man comes to me with a strange teaching not found in scripture, no matter how popular it is, I will defend myself with the scriptures too. And so will all who trust in God and not man.

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, to know the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    #777046
    Admin
    Keymaster

    David, the Pharisees rejected the idea that Jesus was the son of God and the messiah. The Trinity also challenges this by saying that he is God. Thus to believe both means that he is his own son which is a load of babble.

    #777108
    Admin
    Keymaster

    One huge barrier to truth is the conviction that you already have it.

    This is why many stubbornly hold onto a doctrine like the Trinity, even when they are shown proof in scripture that there is one God the Father, who is the only true God.

    “For us there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ”.

    Jesus said, “eternal life is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    #777047
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Pharisees rejected Jesus because (as Stephen declared before the Sanhedrin in Acts 7:51) – “..You always resist the Holy Spirit!” Thus they resisted the revelation of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus, determining (in their pride) to hold onto their old ways and their man made doctrines..

    You say that belief in the Trinity challenges the idea that Jesus is the Son of God…and to believe both means He is His own Son…but in this also you are completely off track..

    The Jews understood clearly (as also the Scriptures themselves declare), that to be called THE SON OF GOD is the same as saying HE IS GOD…!!

    First in Luke 1:35, we read “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called THE SON OF GOD.”

    Then in John 19:7 “The Jewish leaders replied, ‘By our law He ought to die because He called Himself THE SON OF GOD.'”

    #777048
    DavidL
    Participant

    In Matthew 27:54 at the crucifixion, “When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, ‘Surely He was THE SON OF GOD!'”

    Luke 22:70 “And they all said, ‘Are You THE SON OF GOD, then?’ And He said to them, ‘YES, I AM.’ Then they said, ‘What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.'”

    John 10:33 “The Jews answered Him, ‘For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.'”

    Verse 36, “do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I AM THE SON OF GOD'”?

    When we read how Scripture presents to us Jesus as THE SON OF GOD, then go to John 1:1 we find that it sounds completely natural and makes perfect sense…”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    I guess you can find arguments for everything, and just keep denying the simple yet sound testimony of the Scriptures…but the question we must ask ourselves is..”Am I being completely honest with myself and others – or am I actually resisting the voice of the Holy Spirit”..?

    #777109
    DavidL
    Participant

    If this verse about the Father being the only God really sums up for you the whole teaching of the Godhead..then you need to point out how it relates to John 1:1..

    #777110
    Admin
    Keymaster

    It doesn’t mention the godhead. It says that the Father is the only true God. Jesus said it, I believe it and so do many other scripture say that the Father is God and Jesus is Lord. Start confessing today that Jesus is Lord, because if you do not, you will eventually. But best to do it now to show that you really believe he is Lord and are ready to serve him as your Lord.

    Of course it is up to you as to whether you believe he is Lord and if so, then why would you disagree with your Lord as to who the one true God is?

    #777111
    Admin
    Keymaster

    How does it relate to John 1:1 you say?

    Well there are many who are called theos and elohim. This includes angels and men too.

    But for us, there is one true God the Father who is above all and over all. This God has made his son Jesus both Lord and Christ, so that through him God will be in all.

    Thus Jesus as the Word was with God and was called theos in the same way others are called theos, (without an article). The Father in John 1:1 is THE God. Not theos without the article.

    #777049
    Admin
    Keymaster

    You make the same mistake as the Jews, do you not? Because you to suggest as they did that he was claiming to be God, which is blasphemy.

    If you read it properly you will see that Jesus actually defended himself against this most serious of accusations by reminding them of the usage of the word ‘theos/elohim’ in scripture by saying “ye are theos”, which was a quote which says: “yea are elohim, ye are all SONS of the Most High God”.

    Thus he corrected them by saying that he was the SON OF GOD.

    Don’t let any doctrine or teaching take you away from one of the most precious of truths, that ‘Jesus is the son of God’.

    #777050
    DavidL
    Participant

    Jesus is – *THE* SON OF GOD – born of a virgin…!!! but it is you that makes the mistake of denying Christ His true Deity when you equate it with us being gods (in the sense that we were all created with a sovereign will)..

    No, I will not let any doctrine or teaching take me away from one of the most precious truths – that ‘JESUS IS *THE* SON OF GOD’..!!!

    #777112
    DavidL
    Participant

    sO ThE FatHEr iS tHe onLY gOd yET jEsuS iS cAlLeD goD…bUt tHEreS oNly OnE goD riGhT>./?

    #777113
    DavidL
    Participant

    cAusE wE’Re ALL GoDs….!!!.?=+!!~?

    (I thought you said the Trinity was confusing..!!!)

    #777051
    DavidL
    Participant

    You claim to teach what is clearly shown in Scripture…but really what you teach is not Scriptural at all..!

    Your ‘understanding’ of what the Scriptures mean comes from ‘outside’ the Scriptures themselves..so what you actually end up doing is ‘using’ Scripture to deny what the Scriptures say..!!

    You know…it wasn’t long after Peter had his great revelation of Christ, that Jesus actually rebuked him, saying, “Get behind Me Satan! You are an offense to Me, because you are not thinking God’s thoughts but human thoughts!” (Matthew 16:23)

    When we start trying to work things out ourselves we get into trouble and end up becoming an offense to Jesus, and a hindrance to those who are seeking the truth – serving the purposes of Satan rather than doing the will of God..

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