The mystery of Melchizedek

t8,

What I gave was ALSO scripture, funny how you did not recognize what I said as coming from scripture. I also gave direct scripture, I guess those don’t count for you, only some scriptures count for truth, others are to be ignored and not applied for godly understanding according to you.  You want to apply the “who” the “he” the “him” to your definition and not according to scripture, you don’t even apply it to the direct CONTEXT of the passage of Colossians, such denial is astonishing.

There is NO scripture that exists that can be applied to the firstborn spoken of in Colossians 1:15 defined as some “being” other than the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. The context of the entire passage is that the firstborn represents the firstborn of many brethren, the firstborn of the dead, the firstborn that God promised God would MAKE from David’s seed. 

There is NO scripture that exists that can be applied to the “being” that is the image of God other than the MAN that was perfected upon going to the cross. 

There is NO scripture that exists that makes the “being” who has dominion over all the earth, over all of creation other than the MAN who shed his blood and now sits at God’s right hand.

The entire CONTEXT of this passage is speaking of the man who now sits at God’s right hand. He, as in the man who shed his blood and was raised from the dead, is before all things, as we are told in Colossians that the person who HAS FIRST PLACE IN ALL THINGS is the MAN who was raised from the dead.

There exists NO person who has FIRST PLACE over all of creation BECAUSE he was created before Genesis, he has FIRST PLACE over ALL THINGS BECAUSE God would not allow His Holy One to see his flesh decay, as he had been a lamb without spot or blemish. 

As said earlier which you never responded to, you DEFINE the word THROUGH as if you are completely ignorant to the COMMON USE of that word, and ignorant to countless scriptures. How convenient for you!!

God made the world through establishing the END, which is a new beginning, BEFORE He established the beginning.

God made the world THROUGH PROMISES, which those promises He gave to the prophets since the beginning.

God made the world THROUGH His PROMISE of bringing forth eternal life. 

God made the world THROUGH His powerful Spirit by His knowledge and His Wisdom

God made the world THROUGH His PROMISED MERCY

God made the world THROUGH the SEED of Abraham as by Abraham’s SEED the Christ would come. 

God made the world THROUGH the SEED of David, where He would make David’s son into His own Son according to the Spirit of Holiness.

God made the world THROUGH and ANOINTING that would occur upon a human servant chosen from among the brethren, where creation was made FOR HIM for the day God would appoint him to have dominion over ALL the works that God had made.

God made the world THROUGH His plan concerning the lamb without spot or blemish.

God made the world THROUGH His knowledge that ONE MAN would bring sin and death, and another MAN who would bring righteousness and eternal life.

God made the world THROUGH REDEMPTION that would come through ONE MAN.

God made the world THROUGH His plan to bring all of creation into the knowledge of Him, so that He could be in all, of which He did THROUGH a MAN.

God made the world THROUGH a promise that of the seed of Abraham ALL the nations would be blessed. 

I am MOST happy to give MANY direct scriptures,

Here you go!

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached BEFORE the GOSPEL unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed……16 Now to Abraham and his SEED were the PROMISES made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And DECLARED to be the Son of God with power, ACCORDING TO the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

John 11: 27 believest thou this? she saith to him, Yes, sir, I have believed that thou art THE CHRIST, the Son of God, who is coming to the world.

2 Timothy 2: 8 Remember that Jesus Christ OF the SEED of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel

Mark 1: 2 As it hath been written in the prophets, Lo, I send My messenger before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee, –.. 10 and immediately coming up from the water, he saw the heavens dividing, and the Spirit as a dove coming down upon him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art My Son — the Beloved, in whom I did delight.

Psalms 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us…6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will DECLARE the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall GIVE thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.

Acts 2:22 Men, Israelites! hear these words, Jesus the Nazarene, A MAN approved of God among you by mighty works, and wonders, and signs, that God did through him in the midst of you, according as also ye yourselves have known 23 this ONE, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, being given out, having taken by lawless hands, having crucified — ye did slay 24 whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, HE HATH SENT ME ….

John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and GAVE him GLORY; that your faith and hope might be in God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God SENT his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

John 11: 27 believest thou this? she saith to him, Yes, sir, I have believed that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming to the world.

Matthew 22:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of LIFE; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Psalms 89:21 My hand will sustain him; surely my arm will strengthen him. 22 The enemy will not get the better of him; the wicked will not oppress him. 23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down his adversaries. 24 My faithful love will be with him, and through my name his horn will be exalted. 25 I will set his hand over the sea, his right hand over the rivers. 26 He will call out to me, You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior. 27 And I will APPOINT him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. 28 I will maintain my love to him forever, and my covenant with him will never fail. 29 I will establish his line forever, his throne as long as the heavens endure.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my SERVANT, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. …4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles ….8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and MY GLORY will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered 9 And being MADE PERFECT, he BECAME the author of ETERNAL SALVATION unto all them that obey him;

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, PROMISED BEFORE the world BEGAN;

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned…15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many…17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)  …19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Daniel 7:14 And there was GIVEN HIM dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Psalms 2: 6 And I — I have anointed My King, Upon Zion My holy hill. 7 I declare concerning a statute: Jehovah said unto me, My Son Thou art, I today have brought thee forth. 8 Ask of Me and I give nations thy inheritance, And thy possession the ends of earth. 9 Thou dost rule them with a sceptre of iron, As a vessel of a potter Thou dost crush them. 10 And now, O kings, act wisely, Be instructed, O judges of earth, 11 Serve ye Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Chosen One, lest He be angry, And ye lose the way, When His anger burneth but a little, O the happiness of all trusting in Him!

Psalm 18: 49 Therefore I confess Thee among nations, O Jehovah, And to Thy name I sing praise, 50 Magnifying the salvation of His king, And doing kindness to His anointed, To David, and to his seed unto the age!

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall COME FORTH a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

1 Corinthians 15: 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith ALL THINGS are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. 13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to THE KINGDOM of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15 HE IS the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Psalms 2: 8 Ask of Me and I give nations — thy inheritance, And thy possession — the ends of earth.

Daniel 7:14 And there was GIVEN HIM dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Romans 8: 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 9: 6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Hebrews 12: 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

2 Corinthians 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Psalms 89: 26 He will call out to me, You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior. 27 And I will APPOINT him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. 28 I will maintain my love to him forever, and my covenant with him will never fail. 29 I will establish his line forever, his throne as long as the heavens endure.

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been created through Him and FOR Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together

18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is THE BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead, so that He himself WILL COME TO HAVE first place IN everything.

19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. 21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Isaiah 46: 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Isaiah 42: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

t8 I do not have a problem with ANY scripture, \

Would you PLEASE share with all of us which scriptures you THINK I have a problem with?

The issue here is your understanding of the word through, and the identity of the “who” the “him” and the “he” in Colossians is.

The issue here is that not only do you want to play ignorant to how the world through is used in common language, you want to apply firstborn over all creation to a different firstborn then that of the word of God given to us in the same chapter, which is the firstborn of the dead. Jesus is not only the first of many brethren but we are told that he is first to a new beginning, where even the creatures of the earth will be redeemed, lions will eat grass.

t8 you want to EXPLAIN how it is that the firstborn of the dead IS NOT then ALSO the firstborn overall creation through being firstborn of the dead?

You want to explain how it is that all things do not consist through REDEMPTION that was brought by the blood of a man????

Without the Son of God having learned obedience you are DEAD eternally, nothing consists except for DEATH without the man that was perfected, all things consist through this perfecting.

God had foreknowledge of this perfecting, of this OBEDIENCE brought through the suffering of a man in the flesh bleeding on the cross.

You want to tell us that all things are made through and for a pre-existing being.

I am going to tell you that all things were made through and for the firstborn of many brethren. All things were made through the man that had been anointed and was sent out and healed the blind, that raised the dead, that spoke about the kingdom of God to the people, the man who gave glory to God and declared that he did nothing of himself. The man that followed not the will of man but that of God’s will, who suffered temptation like we suffer from temptation and thus by that is our righteous judge and through that he is appointed heir over the works of God’s hands. God made everything through HIM, who IS the SECOND human, the first human given eternal life.

God had promised before time began eternal life for US humans who I am proud to say Jesus of Nazareth of the fruit of David’s loins is FIRST to the GLORY of God our Father who had placed His Spirit upon him and called him into righteousness to save me from my sins. Praise be to my God and Father and to His Son who is my King and my Brother.