The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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January 31, 2014 at 1:36 am#778902
Admin
Keymaster
I think it was Paul that taught us that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. This explains why Jesus said, “if you have seen me, you have seen the Father”. And because Jesus is the image, this proves that he is not the original.

Likewise, the woman is the image of the man because she was taken from man. While Eve is part of mankind, she is not the original man, Adam. In a similar way, while Jesus came from God and is divine in nature as his nature came from his Father, he is not the God from which he came, rather his God is the Father.

Revelation 1:6 (English-NIV)
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

John 20:17 (English-NIV)
Jesus said, Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

Paul says, “for us, there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ”. We are also reminded that every tongue will eventually confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. So clearly what is important is that we believe the testimony of who Jesus is. He is the Lord, the son of God, the messiah, and the only way to God.

Nowhere are we required to believe that Jesus is God and this is not even taught in scripture. Rather, it is the Roman Catholic faith and most of the daughters that broke away from her that require this in their creed.
January 31, 2014 at 10:16 am#778903
MissK
Participant
Thanks for your inpute T8 Im still praying to get clarity.
T8 can you edit my message below? can you erase the typo “3 persons”? would be really appreciative as Im still praying about it 🙂
January 31, 2014 at 11:08 am#778904
Admin
Keymaster
I deleted those words for you Ms K, and good to see you are taking this seriously and praying about it too.
January 31, 2014 at 11:11 am#778905
Admin
Keymaster
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (English-NIV)
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
January 31, 2014 at 1:02 pm#778906
Admin
Keymaster
The Spirit is the Spirit OF God
Yeshua is the son OF God.
So is the Father, the Father of God?

No he is God. He is not OF anyone.

Paul confirmed this when he said, “for us there is one God the Father”. Notice how far removed that statement is from what a Trinitarian would proclaim today. They say, there is one God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
February 12, 2014 at 7:25 am#778907
Denny
Guest
Hello, yes, the Trinity is false and from Babylon, originally. I have an article about all the research I found about the Babylonian influences that formed — and were later added into — Christianity, which was developed when Constantine invented it after the general order of his gods. Satan’s seat changed to Rome, and by Constantine’s antisemitic words to introduce his new religion, the Great Whore was born, immediately persecuting the ‘Natsarim,’ which were the original followers of the Jewish Messiah. Yahusha shall crush Christianity (former Christian for decades, here) when He returns, so I am warning people to follow Truth, because it is the ONLY Way to Life. Article Title: ‘Why is Christianity Beholden to Babylonian Holidays of Christmas and Easter (Mythology)? Follow the Mammon, Follow the Great Whore and Become Little Spiritual Whores? “Come Out From Among Them And Be Ye Separate, Says YHWH”‘ Thank you for your time — and for listening! 777denny 🙂
March 16, 2014 at 8:12 pm#778908
Mark Mountjoy
Guest
This question about Jesus’ relationship with the Father and the question of the Trinity has the potential of making there be at least TWO gods for Universalists. It is impossible for me to conceive of Jesus “helping” God make the heaven and the earth or “holding” the universe God created together (as Paul writes in Colossians 1). After everything is said and done, even in Genesis God did not know things and had to come or test ro find them out, hence I am forced to believe the trinity makes the best sense of all this information.
March 16, 2014 at 8:32 pm#778909
Proclaimer
Participant
Jesus said: “This is eternal life, that you may know the ONLY true GOd AND Jesus Christ whom HE has sent.

I guess for me it is more about believing the testimony of Jesus and the apostles, rather than later philosophers trying to make sense of it all.

The Trinity Doctrine either comes from the Spirit of God or the Spirit of man or possibly a doctrine of demons. It should be concerning to you that not one person in scripture actually taught the Trinity Doctrine. Not to mention that Jesus words above “are eternal life”. So how important were those words that Jesus spoke?
March 19, 2014 at 4:57 am#778910
Stephanie Miller
Guest
I found this article comforting and informative. I too have been going through the same thing in my faith. I have a strong faith but I was having trouble with the Trinity and when I would ask someone to explain it, I would feel either just as confused as when I started or sometimes more confused. So it was comforting to read this. Now I have a clear understanding.
Fellow sister in Christ,
Stephanie Miller
March 27, 2014 at 6:42 am#778911
Aljohn Dale
Guest
Philippians 2:5-11
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Genesis 1:26-27 support by Colossians 1:16-17
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John1:1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that YOU HAVE LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? YOU HAVE NOT LIED just to human beings BUT TO GOD.”
Biblical Doctrinal Foundations of the Trinity
April 1, 2014 at 8:14 am#778912
Proclaimer
Participant
Thanks for you comment.

Rebuttals to how you have used these verses can be found here. You are welcome to debate the points there too.
Supporting the Trinity Doctrine – The Trinity Doctrine
April 1, 2014 at 8:15 am#778913
Admin
Keymaster
Hi Stephanie. I am privileged to have helped you out in this regard. More can be found here if you decide to study this further.
Who is the Most High God? – The Trinity Doctrine
April 3, 2014 at 7:44 am#778914
Alan
Guest
Salvation is through Christ, not the Trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit do not equate to the Trinity.
Thank you for your research. I too am swimming against the tide in this but the debate shouldn’t be the cornerstone of our faith. There are far more important work to be done and that is doing the Great Commission and spread the gospel of our Lord Jesus to all the nations. Winning souls is what count most
April 3, 2014 at 8:47 am#778915
Proclaimer
Participant
Agreed that the debate is not the cornerstone of our faith.
That said, people are being taught that the faith is the Trinity Doctrine and are being baptised into the Trinity.
So I think it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. Once the truth about this shines from the highest hill, then those that preach can preach the true gospel and preach about the true kingdom, and teach about the true God.
April 5, 2014 at 4:18 pm#778916
DavidL
Participant
I think the issue for me comes down to where a teaching ORIGINATES from – ie has it come from the mind of man, or is it Divinely inspired?
–
you claim on your site that the teaching or doctrine of the Trinity comes from the Roman Catholic church and before that Babylon…so for a start we can see that what YOU are teaching here about the Trinity is really the product of your own theological study…it stems from the mind of man, an understanding formulated through the exercise of human reasoning…(rather than some direct revelation from Scripture).
–
while one must acknowledge that the WORD ‘Trinity’ is a term that obviously originates with ‘man’ (like the word ‘rapture’), yet it is describing the unity of the Godhead…the oneness of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit…an understanding that is DIVINELY INSPIRED…a REVELATION that ORIGINATES from God Himself…!!
–
You deride the Catholic church and it’s doctrines as a form of “Babylon” – yet YOU yourself have created your own type of Babylonian teaching that trusts in human logic rather than the Spirit of GOD.
April 5, 2014 at 11:36 pm#778917
Admin
Keymaster
David, while history records the works of man, true history itself is not created from the mind of man, it is the true record of what has happened. The Spirit of God teaches us as does scripture, as well as life itself, discipline, and let’s not forget history. If we neglect all these, then that is to our detriment. Scripture after all records history does it not, and is there for us to learn from. We see the mistakes that Israel made and the Church has pretty much made similar mistakes. So history is in scripture in order to teach us too.

Do not discard history. History and scripture are two witnesses.
April 7, 2014 at 2:22 pm#778918
DavidL
Participant
You have made a CARNAL argument against something that is SPIRITUALLY discerned.
April 9, 2014 at 9:04 am#778919
Proclaimer
Participant
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

What I teach agrees with Jesus words above. When I say the same thing as Jesus, you accuse me of being carnal. And you obviously think that the Trinity Doctrine is spiritually discerned, when it is not even what Jesus taught.

Clearly you need to look at yourself regarding your carnal accusation here.
April 9, 2014 at 4:43 pm#778920
DavidL
Participant
your own methods betray you – I do not accuse you, only state the obvious error in your judgment..
April 9, 2014 at 10:04 pm#778921
Proclaimer
Participant
I simply believe Jesus when he said, “eternal life is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”. And you are saying that my methods are carnal because I agree with Jesus. So what you are in effect saying is that the Trinity is spiritually discerned so it would nullify what Jesus said.

I know you are trying hard, but I will not be swayed away from the saviours words.
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