The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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August 13, 2013 at 9:19 pm#778842
Rodd
Guest
Hi Folks,
The article and the comments cover much of the evidence that the trinity is false. 1 Cor.ch 14 v.33 states that God is NOT the author of confusion. The mere fact that the whole world (almost) is confused about the relationship between the Father and the Son tends to suggest..pretty strongly, that the trinity is NOT of God..but of man..inspired and aided, of course, by Satan who has used the RCC with spectacular success. [Afterall…how many Christians claim the 10 commandments but week in and week out, break the 4th one? ( 3rd one if you use the RC corrupted Bible)]
Anyhow. One passage which PROVES that God and His Son Jesus Christ are 2 (Divine) Beings and NOT ONE is found in John ch.8 and in verses 16, 17 and 18.
V.16 Jesus is speaking :- And yet if I judge, my judgement is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
v17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of TWO MEN is true.
v.18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Jesus is using the Jewish witness law to show that His words are true because the Father is the 2nd witness to His word.
So, do you believe and accept the word of confused men at Nicea or the Word of God in His Holy book? …indeed, even the words of our Lord, the Christ, Himself, Son of the living God…as Peter said? (Peter was commended by Jesus Himself, for that reply)
Indeed, where there is confusion, there is mischief. The trinity is one of those ‘traditions of man’ Jesus warns us of. Check the Book..before you believe all that the preachers say !
September 10, 2013 at 2:59 pm#778843
Servant
Guest
I see some of the comments here and it makes me smile and I know it makes our creator smile too. It is a great feeling to see the truth of YHWH shining through and reaching those searching for it.
Jesus is the first born of all creation (only begotten). Through him all other things were created. This is why you see the word “we” used in genesis. He was sent to redeem us all from sin, sacrificed himself as a spiritual creature above all the angels to become man… only to give that human life up for our sins – John 3:16. He is sometimes referred to as the “new Adam”. Adam (a perfect man) brought us sin, Jesus (a perfect man) took it away by sacrificing his blood as atonement. “Lamb of God” Jesus “bought us back” from the wages of sin (death) authority for forgiveness of sins is given to he who sits at the right hand of the father.
Jehovah’s witnesses are telling you the truth, they always have. Remember how hard it was to believe the trinity was false doctrine? Seek the truth. Pray for guidance. Always check scripture and cross reference it. Do not follow the doctrine of Plato (man’s “wisdom”) follow the doctrine of he who holds the truth – Our creator. Halleluiah! Amen. This was a lovely essay.
September 10, 2013 at 3:20 pm#778844
Servant
Guest
All creation answers to God, even Jesus. God is the one who forgives…
John 3:16 – “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only‐begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life” – This.
September 10, 2013 at 11:55 pm#778845
Proclaimer
Participant
Thanks Servant. Although the Jehovah Witnesses are not the only denomination to reject the Trinity. That said, all these groups do have error too. But yes, as far as the Trinity being a false doctrine, they are correct.
September 10, 2013 at 11:57 pm#778846
Admin
Keymaster
Good advice Rodd.
September 11, 2013 at 1:33 pm#778847
Servant
Guest
Yes, all men are imperfect and make mistakes. The truth is found in God’s word. May he continue to guide and bless you as you seek purity and truth in worship. Thanks again, great read.
September 11, 2013 at 1:37 pm#778848
Admin
Keymaster
Thank you in the name of Jesus Christ.
September 11, 2013 at 1:38 pm#778849
Proclaimer
Participant
Have you checked this out?
The Trinity Doctrine
🙂
October 14, 2013 at 1:40 pm#778850
Brian
Guest
Yeshua said, “all glory goes to the father, not unto me.” Paraphrase this and you get “worship god, not me”. Well, if Yeshua is god, why did he tell us to worship him and to not worship him at the same time? Sounds a little crazy to me. Furthermore, if we are created in the same image of god, them why do we heavily medicate people with split personalities? Because obviously, in a trinity concept, we find a god with three personalities, seperate and distinct. Maybe god needs his meds.
Furthermore, the whole doctrine of the trinity wasn’t even penned until the council of nicea which was 300 years after the fact of a “living Christ”. The council was also heavily influenced by Roman leaders who were under orders to come up with one faith. However, at the council, half of the cardinals attending (mainly non-roman) believed that the Christ was not god in the flesh. Those who did not bow to the will of the roman hegemony were labeled heretics and killed thus ensuring a one true roman faith. But, why would a church need to kill dissidents? If the gospel of Christ is love then why use such force to ensure one belief? Doesn’t add up and seems like the early Catholic Church used some very unchristian means to ensure its dominace and faith born out of the council of nicea.
October 15, 2013 at 12:02 am#778851
Admin
Keymaster
Totally agree with your post. Amazing how so many do not question and just accept some traditions, false doctrines, and bad fruit as if it were somehow an important truth. Where is their discernment? Why do they not take Paul’s advice and check out these things in scripture to see if they are so?
November 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm#778852
DavidL
Participant
OF THE TRINITY AND A CHRISTIAN By John Bunyan
How a young, or shaken Christian should
demean himself under the weighty thoughts of
the doctrine of the Trinity, or plurality of
persons in the eternal godhead.
The reason why I say a young, or shaken
Christian; it is because some that are not young,
but of an ancient standing, may not only be
assaulted with violent temptations, concerning
gospel principles, but a second time may
become a child, a babe, a shallow man, in the
things of God; especially, either when by
backsliding he hath provoked God to leave him,
or when some new, unexpected, and, as to
present strength, over-weighty objection doth
fall upon the spirit; by means of which, great
shakings of mind do commonly attend such a
soul, in the most weighty matters of the
concerns of faith, which this is one that have
supposed in the above-named question.
Wherefore passing other things, I will come
directly to that, and briefly propose some helps
to a soul in such a case.
THE FIRST PREPARATIVE.
First, then, be sure thou keep close to the
word of God; for that is the revelation of the
mind and will of God, both as to the truth of
what is either in himself or ways; and also as to
what he requireth and expecteth of thee, either
concerning faith in, or obedience to, what he
hath so revealed. Now for thy better
performing of this I shall give thee in brief these
following directions.
1. Suffer thyself, by the authority of the
word, to be persuaded that the scripture indeed
is the word of God; the scriptures of truth, the
words of the holy one; and that they therefore
must be every one true, pure, and for ever
settled in heaven.
2. Conclude therefore from the former
doctrine, that that God whose words they are,
is able to make a reconciliation and most sweet
and harmonious agreement with all the sayings
therein, how obscure, cross, dark, and
contradictory soever they seem to thee. To
understand all mysteries, to have all knowledge,
http://www.chapellibrary.org/johnbunyan/text/bun-trinity.pdf
November 6, 2013 at 11:24 pm#778853
DavidL
Participant
John Bunyan on the Trinity
November 6, 2013 at 11:26 pm#778854
DavidL
Participant
to be able to comprehend with all saints, is a
great work; enough to crush the spirit, and to
stretch the strings of the most capacious and
widened soul that breatheth on this side glory,
be they notwithstanding exceedingly enlarged
by revelation. Paul, when he was caught up to
heaven, saw that which was unlawful, because
impossible for man to utter. And saith Christ to
the reasoning Pharisee, ‘If I have told you
earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye
believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?’ (John
3:12). It is great lewdness, and also insufferable
arrogancy to come to the word of God, as
conceiting already that whatever thou readest,
must either by thee be understood, or of itself
fall to the ground as a senseless error. But God
is wiser than man, wherefore fear thou him,
and tremble at his word, saying still, with godly
suspicion of thine own infirmity, what I see not,
teach thou me, and thou art God only wise; but
as for me, ‘I was as a beast before thee’ (Psa
73:22).
3. Take heed of taking a part of the word
only, lest thou thereby go away with the truth
as mangled in pieces. For instance, where thou
readest, ‘The LORD our God is one Lord’
(Deut 6:4); there take heed that thou dost not
thence conclude, Then there are not three
persons in the godhead: Or when thou readest
of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, then
take heed of concluding, there must therefore
either be three Gods, or else that Jesus Christ
and the Holy Ghost are not true God, but the
Father only. Wherefore to help thee here,
observe,
THE SECOND PREPARATIVE.
1. That Christian religion requireth credit
concerning every doctrine contained in the
word; credit, I say, according to the true
relation of every sentence that the Holy Ghost
hath revealed for the asserting, maintaining, or
vindicating that same truth.
2. And therefore hence it is that a Christian
is not called a doer, a reasoner, an objector, and
perverse disputer; but a BELIEVER. Be thou an
example to the believer. ‘And believers were the
more added to the Lord,’ &c. (Acts 5:14; 1 Tim
4:12).
3. Therefore know again that the word, if it
saith and expresseth that this or that is so and
so, as to the matter in hand, thou art bound
and obliged both by the name, profession, and
the truth, unto which thou hast joined thyself,
to assent to, confess and acknowledge the same,
even then when thy carnal reason will not stoop
thereto. ‘Righteous art thou, O Lord,’ saith
Jeremiah, ‘yet let me talk with thee: Wherefore
doth the way of the wicked prosper?’ (Jer 12:1).
Mark, first he acknowledgeth that God’s way
with the wicked is just and right, even then
when yet he could not see the reason of his
actings and dispensations towards them. The
same reason is good as to our present case. And
hence it is that the apostle teacheth, the
spiritual armour of Christians should be much
exercised against those high-towering and selfexalting imaginations, that within our own
bosoms do exalt themselves against the
knowledge of God. That every thought, or
carnal reasoning, may be not only taken, but
brought as captive into obedience to Christ;
that is, be made to stoop to the word of God,
and to give way and place to the doctrine
therein contained, how cross soever our
thoughts and the word lie to each other. And it
is observable that he here teacheth, They exalt
themselves against the knowledge of God,
which cannot be understood that our carnal or
natural reason doth exalt itself against an
eternal deity, simply considered; for that nature
itself doth gather from the very things that are
made, even his eternal power and godhead; it
must be then that they exalt themselves against
that God as thus and thus revealed in the word,
to wit, against the knowledge of one God
consisting of three persons, Father, Son, and
Spirit; for this is the doctrine of the scriptures of
truth; and therefore it is observable these
thoughts must be brought captive, and be made
subject in particular to the Lord Jesus Christ, as
to the second person in the godhead; for the
Father is ever acknowledged by all that profess
the least of religion; but the Son is that
stubmling-stone, and rock of offence, against
which thousands dash themselves in pieces;
though in him are hid all the treasures of
wisdom and knowledge, and in him dwells the
fulness of the godhead bodily.
November 6, 2013 at 11:30 pm#778855
DavidL
Participant
Chuck Missler 3 part teaching on the Trinity..

November 7, 2013 at 12:14 am#778856
Proclaimer
Participant
Even Chuck Missler cannot prove the Trinity. I put my trust in scripture and the words of Jesus Christ.
November 7, 2013 at 12:19 am#778857
Proclaimer
Participant
If you can’t prove the doctrine using scripture, then quoting great men of God from times past won’t do it either. Remember that we all live in a different time with different problems to contend with. Today, we might think we need to belong to a denomination and many great teachers teach this. But it is also not true.

Where are the scriptures in John Bunyan’s words? How come Jesus never gave a sermon on the Trinity. Not even once did he teach his disciples in secret did he preach the Trinity to them acoording to the gospels and Acts. A fair question. Jesus used the word of God to defeat Satan. I am not interested in perpetuating the struggles and deceptions of the day. Looking to a brighter future, where these past traditions are cast off, so we can be free and run the race faster.

There was a time when men believed that there was only one Catholic Church and that salvation came from that Church only. Some of the greatest men of God who lived are still victims of the times they live in. It is said that Luther persecuted Jews for example.

But as the day gets brighter, we should not be like those who fell back into the Law or being justified by the law after tasting grace. After realizing the truth that there is one God the Father who is the only true God, I am not going to be bewitched and fall back into pagan trinity ideologies? Neither am I going to fall back into salvation through penance, or any other tradition of man.
November 7, 2013 at 12:37 am#778858
Admin
Keymaster
Davidl. You give me quotes and quotes from great men of God who lived in a darker past, yet if you really want to prove your doctrine, then reguritating doctrines that they were under is not helpful to the progression of the Church being freed by the truth and being withour spot and blemish. I advise you to demonstrate that it is supported in scripture because even these great men were susceptible to the traditions of their day, that had been passed down. But they also surely would have known that scripture takes precedent. But we take one step at a time. And we see a progression in history of being free of the traditions that came to us when the Dark Ages denied man the scripture, and the false foundation of the false Church took root in that ignorance.

And because you are short on scripture and long on quotes of men who lived in trying times. And couple that with your complete denial of Jesus own words, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”, then I can draw this conclusion.

You are putting your trust in these men, and not God. If you trust in the words of Jesus, then you trust in the words of God, because Jesus said and I believe this to be true, that he only spoke that which he heard his Father saying.

Yes if you trust Jesus, you will hear his words, no matter who speaks them. But if you deny his words, then you will deny them too, no matter who speaks them.
November 7, 2013 at 12:42 am#778859
Proclaimer
Participant
Tell me DavidL.

What holds more weight in your eyes.

A whole sermon from John Bunyan or Chuck Misler on the Trinity, or one sentence from Jesus who is the Word of God.

I choose Jesus Christ any day. Not you so it seems. But it is better to believe the master than one of his servants.

Jesus said, “This is ETERNAL LIFE, that you may know the ONLY true God, AND Jesus Christ WHOM HE has sent”.

Let’s be clear and bring this out into the light. You clearly do not believe Jesus words here.

If we were both there to hear these words with our own ears, then out of the two of us, which one would be the adversary? Certainly not me. I concur even 2000 or so years later. But not you so it seems.
November 10, 2013 at 7:03 pm#778860
DavidL
Participant
I have considered what you teach on this site concerning the trinity, and really there is nothing that you have said here that causes me to doubt that the Bible reveals God as a Triune Being – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…and that belief in the trinity is not some extra-Biblical doctrine, as you say, but rather it is confirmed and manifested continually from the pages of Scripture itself…
–
When I compare what you teach to what someone like Chuck Missler teaches I have to say, in all honesty (and not wanting to cause offence to you), Chuck Missler makes more sense…he is not trying to prove or disprove anything, he is just explaining what the Bible says in a very open and honest way…confirming to me the truth of God’s Word…
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Your arguments against the Trinity, (like what you have just put forth here concerning the weight of Jesus’ own words in comparison to what a preacher may teach) IMO just doesn’t stack up with reality…because this verse you quote doesn’t relate to the Trinity as such – rather you take this one Scripture and try and make it prove something that the rest of Scripture doesn’t teach…!
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The very way you use Scripture is contrary to the nature of Scripture..
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Overall, when considering this whole debate, it seems quite obvious to me that you have been led astray in your thinking…maybe by taking on-board what other men have taught, rather than simply trusting Scripture itself..?
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I ask myself – If I just take and believe the Words of Jesus Himself, would I really come to the same conclusions as what you teach here…? And I already know that answer…because the Word’s of Christ have always been more important to me than the teachings of man…and sadly, even though you present yourself as a true believer, the teachings you teach is like the voice of a stranger…
November 10, 2013 at 8:40 pm#778861
Admin
Keymaster
This is because you put an extra-biblical doctrine first and scripture second. Lots of people put other so-called truths first and scripture second. Its a way for man to dictate or believe in the truth that he wants with the added bonus of feeling like scripture supports your view. In the last days there will be heaps of teachers tickling the ears of those who hear what they want to hear. But Jesus said:

“My sheep hear my voice”

He also said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

He was clear, that the only true God was his Father. He also said that this God is our God too.
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