Home Scripture & Verse Support Verses for the Trinity Doctrine? Page 7

Support Verses for the Trinity Doctrine?

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  • November 27, 2013 at 5:58 pm#777592
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    david

    can you point out some indication in the scriptures that actually talks about the trinity ???

    and of cause that lines up with the words of what God says ;THAT HE ALONE IS GOD ,AND THAT THEIR IS NO OTHER GOD LIKE HIM ;

    AND THE UNDERSTANDING THAT GOD IS A BEING NOT A COMPOSED BEING ,

    November 27, 2013 at 9:00 pm#777593
    Admin
    Keymaster

    @ DavidL.
    See how you need extra-biblical support for your doctrine? Whereas, we can give you scripture that cannot be altered by reason of their simplicity and clarity.


    You have one so-called proof, your interpretation of John 1:1c. But we have told you before that there are 3 ways that John 1:1c can be read using all the possible legitimate interpretations when the definite article is not there.

    1) Imagine it is inferred and treat it like other verses where it is also not there, but is still talking about God;
    2) Put in the indefinite article like other verses do such as Jesus calling Judas “a devil”;
    3) Interpret it without any article at all as it is written, thus giving it a qualitative view such as we see with Jesus own words, when he said, “ye are gods/theos”. When he said that, he did not mean “Ye are God” and there is no definite article there either.

    In order to choose the right one, you only have to choose the one that does not contradict the rest of scripture. It is not hard and we shouldn’t even have to spell that out to you. So let’s take a look at 3 scriptures, 2 from Paul, one from Jesus.

    “For us there is one God the Father”
    “There is one God and Father of all”
    “This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    Anyone who chooses the first option for John 1:1c (such as yourself), ignores the words of Jesus and Paul above and hundreds of other verses that I haven’t quoted in this post but are quoted here, (100 verses are):

    100 indisputable proof verses – The Trinity Doctrine

    So why swap the clear words of Jesus for one supposed possible interpretation of what John wrote in the opening line of his book, and even worse, John tells us the conclusion of his book which is to believe who Jesus is, which he says, the son of God, and the messiah. Those who swap the words of Jesus for their own opinion of John 1:1c or any other scripture, are being foolish in the extreme.

    But as Jesus said himself, “My sheep hear my voice”, so we would be wise to listen to him on who God is. But I realise that not all will listen and there is nothing I can do about that. I can lead a horse to water, but I cannot force him to drink.

    DavidL, your Trinity Doctrine is from Babylon. It is not in scripture, it contradicts hundreds of scriptures that are clear, and it goes against Jesus own teachings. What can I say, will we then become bewitched and return to Babylonian captivity or will we remain free in the truth?

    I can tell you here an now, we are not interested in your wares. The bread you are trying to get us to consume is not from Heaven.

    November 27, 2013 at 9:18 pm#777594
    Admin
    Keymaster

    He simply cannot. He gives John 1:1. Unfortunately for him, it is talking about the Word and God. No Trinity there. But he is happy to quote extra-biblical material.

    November 28, 2013 at 3:24 pm#777595
    DavidL
    Participant

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: – Matthew 28:19

    November 28, 2013 at 3:58 pm#777596
    DavidL
    Participant

    You have brought into question the translation of John 1:1…giving your understanding of Greek and how you imagine it should be interpreted, and I have shared why this Scripture correctly reads, “the Word was God.” …I don’t need this information to support my belief, but I share it so we have something to compare your teaching with…since it is you that must change this verse to support your anti-trinity doctrine.
    –
    btw I believe “This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom He has sent”. Every Christian believes this, but you use this verse (like all who oppose the trinity) to deny the rightful Deity of Christ..and the reason you do this is because you lean on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5) to interpret Scripture, and as such you cannot make sense of the trinity….this is the difference between us.

    November 28, 2013 at 4:24 pm#777597
    DavidL
    Participant

    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. – 1 Corinthians 2:14
    –
    Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and His paths beyond tracing out!
    – Romans 11:33
    –
    “Can you solve the mysteries of God? Can you discover everything about the Almighty? – Job 11:7
    –
    Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom. – Isaiah 40:28
    –
    these are the things God has revealed to us by His Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. – 1 Corinthians 2:10
    –
    My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments…See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. – Colossians 2
    –
    The mystery that gives us our reverence for God is acknowledged to be great: He appeared in His human nature, was approved by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was announced throughout the nations, was believed in the world, and was taken to heaven in glory. – 1 Timothy 3:16

    November 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm#777598
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8 – you ‘use’ Scripture to support your hollow arguments but like the Pharisees, your dead theology denies the very GOD you profess to serve.
    –
    you are not fighting me – you are opposing the Holy Spirit.

    November 28, 2013 at 9:41 pm#777599
    Admin
    Keymaster

    I noticed that you didn’t say I was opposing scripture, but the Holy Spirit. You have this idea that the Holy Spirit interprets scripture differently to how it is written. So “this is eternal life to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”, becomes something different that means that the Father is not the only true God according to Jesus own words. Let’s call it what it is, a direct contradiction of Jesus’s own words.

    Jesus said, “my sheep hear my voice” and eternal life was to believe in the only true God the Father and Jesus whom the Father sent.

    This much is clear. You publicly oppose this, and condemn me for repeating Jesus own words.

    November 29, 2013 at 2:24 am#777600
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    david

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: – Matthew 28:19

    do you know that the Hebrew gospel of Matthew does not have that verse ,??? and do you know that there is no other scripture that support this ritual ???

    November 29, 2013 at 2:28 am#777601
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Matthew 28:19

    November 29, 2013 at 12:06 pm#777602
    Admin
    Keymaster

    The Church who calls herself the mother Church also defends the Mysterious Trinity. How interesting to note that she is called a mother and she defends something that is a mystery.

    The ancient mystery religion is Mystery Babylon and the Mysterious Trinity is part of this ancient religion. The original Babylon worshipped a Trinity, with Tamuz the son being born on Dec 25. God was so enraged by Babylon that he destroyed that city so that it would never rise again.

    But the religion spread especially after Babel. It took on many forms and many names, and so it was that trinities appeared in many cultures. This Mother Church that defends this mysterious Trinity has put to death those who did not concur with her doctrine and foundation. These martyrs were burned at the stake, hung, tortured, starved and imprisoned. Some say it was many millions that were put to death. Her reign was terrible and became known as the Dark Ages. Scripture was removed from everyday people, and no one could stop her. During this darkness when men did not have the Word of God, her false foundation took deep root and with the opposition killed, she sat like a queen. She sat there with a golden cup in her hand and wearing purple and scarlet. And the wine that she gave people to drink was not from the River of Life, but from her golden cup of abominations. And from this she made much of the world drunk.

    Even today, drunk people are still trying to shut us up. They can’t kill us because that is unlawful. But who knows what men are capable of when darkness has her hour.

    November 29, 2013 at 6:30 pm#777603
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Hebrew gospel of Matthew was written by George Howard in 1995, who took a medieval Jewish rabbinical commentary on Matthew (written in Hebrew) and extracting the text of Matthew, he first published it separately as ‘The Gospel of Matthew according to a primitive Hebrew Text’ (1987)..
    –
    Most scholars consider that these medieval Hebrew manuscripts are derived by translation from medieval Greek or Latin manuscripts, and therefore that it is extremely unlikely that any of the unique readings found in these medieval Hebrew manuscripts could be ancient..but rather were written for the purpose of Jewish apologetics…

    November 30, 2013 at 12:09 am#777604
    DavidL
    Participant

    Your ideas remind me of groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventist, who love attacking the Catholic church for it’s false doctrine and past persecution of believers…you talk about mystery Babylon etc, but this fascination you have with the trinity has really perverted your concept of Christianity.. making your view tunnel-visioned to the point where it seems you think the whole Christian world revolves around this one doctrine..
    –
    I’m not Catholic – never have been, nor for that matter do I belong to any denomination…but I can tell you without a doubt, the threefold unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the absolute truth of Scripture..!!!
    –
    The fact that the Godhead is presented to us in the Word as ‘mysterious’ is in no way related to mystery Babylon..it is just showing (quite understandably) that the mind of man is incapable of comprehending Almighty God, the same as when Paul was caught up into Paradise and heard unspeakable words…or Ezekiel saw four faced creatures with wheels full of eyes…
    –
    That God is both Three and ONE at the same time is something which confounds the intellectual mind, but for those who are born of the Spirit it is no longer a doctrine to work out theologically or historically – you simply know it’s true because you’ve ‘seen’ it..
    –
    This may sound arrogant to some but really ‘revelation’ is the basis of all true faith – period..! It starts with us seeing our own need for God…and even knowing Jesus died for our sins is itself a revelation…the work of salvation is really the work of the Holy Spirit revealing to us the truth…but like the Galatians who started out right, we all must guard against falling back to relying on our own understanding again…
    –
    “Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” – Galatians 3:3

    November 30, 2013 at 12:29 am#777605
    DavidL
    Participant

    But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. – John 14:26
    –
    “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father–the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father–He will testify about Me.” – John 15:26
    –
    “There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.” – 1 Corinthians 12:4-6

    November 30, 2013 at 12:30 am#777606
    Admin
    Keymaster

    I see that you identify strongly with Babylon.

    And Jesus said that eternal life was to know the only true God (the Father) and to also know him (Jesus) whom the only true God sent.

    Does Jesus sound like a JW to you too? He must do.

    If I say that the Father is the only true God and that makes me like a JW, then Jesus is like a JW to you too.

    The Pharisees claimed to be of God and Abraham. But they were not because the proof was they ignored Jesus words. Why do you do that too?

    November 30, 2013 at 12:33 am#777607
    DavidL
    Participant

    “A little (and incomplete) knowledge of Greek can do more harm than good when people try to apply it beyond their scope of knowledge.” – Corey Keating

    November 30, 2013 at 12:42 am#777608
    DavidL
    Participant

    so what part of what I just shared identifies me with Babylon…?

    November 30, 2013 at 12:46 am#777609
    Admin
    Keymaster

    DavidL, in Revelation we are told that men did not repent of worhipping and making idols even during the judgements.

    But why would they not repent I use to wonder. You have partially given me the answer. It is because they have been deceived into thinking they are right. And they are deceived because they loved not the truth.

    Here is a truth that you do not love. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son”. Here is another. “This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    When we do not love the truth, we are then susceptible to the lies, even the great lies and false wonders that will happen and are happening.

    November 30, 2013 at 12:50 am#777610
    Admin
    Keymaster

    The Trinity. It started in Babylon spread to Egypt, to Greece, to the Roman Empire, then the Holy Roman Empire, and now the Roman Catholic Church. They all had their beloved Trinity. This mystery religion rode on the back of the whole Beast and yes the Mystery Religion was in these empires, not just the first one. It kept the people drunk and easy to control. A very handy took in the hands of these power mongers.

    November 30, 2013 at 1:04 am#777611
    Admin
    Keymaster

    @ DavidL,
    Do you follow Christianity as a sort of insurance policy to save you from Hell, or do you follow God and his son, and believe their words because they are true?

    Those who are of Jesus listen to him and do what he says. Even if a billion men tell them otherwise.

    Yes we all ultimately fail God, but he expects us to listen and do his will and love the truth because love rejoices in truth.

    Following a religion because you think it will save you from an eternal Hell is never going to lead you to God. It might scare you into some kind of submission, but that is not enough to save you. Even the demons tremble at God and the thought of the judgement to come. So it is that you must love the truth which they do not. Yet you have publicly ignored Jesus own words regarding what eternal life is based on.

    “This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.”

    You have two choices. Accept or reject. I accept this and teach it from the rooftops. You have so far shunned it, haven’t you. After all, when I tell you that the only true God is the Father, and Jesus is the son of the one true God, you persecute me for that, and call me a JW and other names.

    If I am persecuted because of Jesus Christ, then I am blessed. If I stand by his words against millions, then I am blessed. If I am accused of all kinds of things because of his words, then the accusations are going direct to the Lord himself because they are his words.

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