Home Scripture & Verse Support Verses for the Trinity Doctrine? Page 19

Support Verses for the Trinity Doctrine?

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  • March 19, 2015 at 11:10 am#790963
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Adam was created like God in righteousness?

    Any scriptures?

    You decide men have the form of angels?

    Any suggestions in scripture that this is always the case??

    March 19, 2015 at 11:55 am#790970
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    To whomever it may concern,

    Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?
    We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    No, the text is being snatched out of context the proper context is:

    1 John 5:19-21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

    The subject is about God and the verse simply says the son of God has taught us who God is, you can also clearly see this by also noting it says “in him that is true” then it says “even in his son” with a period. there is no doubt the next sentence is again about God and not Jesus also other scripture says the exact same thing coming directly from the mouth of Jesus.

    John 17:3
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    March 19, 2015 at 12:08 pm#790971
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    The scriptures say that man was created in the image and likeness of God and God gave man dominion over what he created for mankind, the scriptures don’t explain in what way man is created in his image and likeness except that he gave man Dominion as God and His angels have, as the prayer goes “on earth as it is in heaven”. In the realm of earth mankind can actually make the statement that God says about all creation i.e. Isaiah 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    March 19, 2015 at 12:42 pm#790972
    kerwin
    Participant

    bodhitharta,

    You are correct that Scripture does not explain it. Instead it is clear God expects to know what the words mean. I can only by what I know and that is that in the new testament the words “image of God” mean the image of his righteousness and holiness.

    I have also learned there is a Jewish belief in three different types of creation. The first is the physical creation that first occurred when God created the heavens and the earth. The second is the soulish creation that first occurred when God created the creatures of the deep and the birds of the air. The third is the spiritual creation that first occurred when God created humanity. 1 Corinthians 15 used the same wording as this Jewish teaching to separate the soulish body from the spiritual body.

    I also know that some, including me, believe God was speaking to his angels when he said “Let us make man in our likeness and image” and connecting that with the fact that the angels visiting Lot looked just like human beings leads me to believe God was also telling the angels that he, as part of the Unity of faith, would create human beings in their image as they were also part of the same unity, even though they were just an audience to his miracles.

    In short I have come to the conclusion that humanity was created in the image of God righteousness and holiness and in the outer likeness of his angels, as he, himself as no outer likeness.

    March 19, 2015 at 12:46 pm#790973
    kerwin
    Participant

    bodhitharts,

    In the realm of earth mankind can actually make the statement that God says about all creation i.e. Isaiah 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    God apportions power in the way that is righteous. Even the beast receive the power he gives to them. A fish does not breath air and live on land nor doe a human breath water and live in the seas.

    March 19, 2015 at 1:24 pm#790974
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    “You are correct that Scripture does not explain it. Instead it is clear God expects to know what the words mean. I can only by what I know and that is that in the new testament the words “image of God” mean the image of his righteousness and holiness.”

     

    You make enormous assumptions based just on your own ideas.

    March 19, 2015 at 2:02 pm#790975
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi KW,

    Your conclusions are just hot air.

    March 19, 2015 at 2:25 pm#790976
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    You make enormous assumptions based just on your own ideas.

    If you knew what an assumption was then you would no they were not assumptions. All you do by calling something what it is not is trumpeting your own lack of knowledge.

    I doubt you have anything to add for if your did then you would.

    March 19, 2015 at 2:42 pm#790978
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW

    “You are correct that Scripture does not explain it. Instead it is clear God expects to know what the words mean.[ASSUMPTION] I can only by what I know and that is that in the new testament the words “image of God” mean the image of his righteousness and holiness.[ASSUMPTION]

    I have also learned there is a Jewish belief in three different types of creation. The first is the physical creation that first occurred when God created the heavens and the earth. The second is the soulish creation that first occurred when God created the creatures of the deep and the birds of the air. The third is the spiritual creation that first occurred when God created humanity. 1 Corinthians 15 used the same wording as this Jewish teaching to separate the soulish body from the spiritual body.[UNSCRIPTURAL]

    I also know that some, including me, believe God was speaking to his angels when he said “Let us make man in our likeness and image” and connecting that with the fact that the angels visiting Lot looked just like human beings leads me to believe God was also telling the angels that he, as part of the Unity of faith, would create human beings in their image as they were also part of the same unity, even though they were just an audience to his miracles.[OPINION]

    In short I have come to the conclusion that humanity was created in the image of God righteousness and holiness and in the outer likeness of his angels, as he, himself as no outer likeness.[HOT AIR]

    March 19, 2015 at 4:09 pm#791033
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    “You are correct that Scripture does not explain it. Instead it is clear God expects to know what the words mean.[ASSUMPTION] I can only by what I know and that is that in the new testament the words “image of God” mean the image of his righteousness and holiness.[ASSUMPTION]

    I wouldn’t call this a total assumption as it is clear that God taught Adam knowledge and what he expected from them therefore they had the falculty to have those qualities:

    Matthew 5:48Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    I have also learned there is a Jewish belief in three different types of creation. The first is the physical creation that first occurred when God created the heavens and the earth. The second is the soulish creation that first occurred when God created the creatures of the deep and the birds of the air. The third is the spiritual creation that first occurred when God created humanity. 1 Corinthians 15 used the same wording as this Jewish teaching to separate the soulish body from the spiritual body.[UNSCRIPTURAL]

    This isn’t scriptural but it appears to have a sound scriptural base meaning: because Man has the breath/spirit of God in them as oppose to animals who are “animations” and then inanimate objects

    I also know that some, including me, believe God was speaking to his angels when he said “Let us make man in our likeness and image” and connecting that with the fact that the angels visiting Lot looked just like human beings leads me to believe God was also telling the angels that he, as part of the Unity of faith, would create human beings in their image as they were also part of the same unity, even though they were just an audience to his miracles.[OPINION]

    In short I have come to the conclusion that humanity was created in the image of God righteousness and holiness and in the outer likeness of his angels, as he, himself as no outer likeness.[HOT AIR]

    This is not unfounded as Jesus did say:
    Matthew 22:30 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    also

    Genesis 6:2Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    please comment

    March 19, 2015 at 4:23 pm#791034
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    The use of THEREFORE is an indication that you rely on logic and not pure scripture.

    March 19, 2015 at 5:54 pm#791037
    DavidL
    Participant

    @bodhitarta

    John 1:1 is a direct reference to Genesis 1:1, which should be obvious…John takes the first four words of the Torah and expands them to reveal Christ in creation, operating with God, as God – as the following verses confirm…

    “..He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.”

    March 19, 2015 at 6:47 pm#791040
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    The emperor is wearing no clothes.

    Yet folks everwhere try to hide behind those “robes”

    March 19, 2015 at 8:50 pm#791043
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Nick

    I didn’t use “therefore”, Jesus said that in the verse.

    March 19, 2015 at 8:55 pm#791044
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi bd,

    “I wouldn’t call this a total assumption as it is clear that God taught Adam knowledge and what he expected from them therefore they had the falculty to have those qualities:”

     

    March 19, 2015 at 9:44 pm#791049
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    @DavidL

    If this is about the actual beginning it would make no sense because there would be no “Men” in the beginning but in John 1:4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men.

    You can clearly see that to be profound he borrows the phrase “in the Beginning” but this is the beginning of the Gospel and this is his way of developing the story spiritually for effect and I will show you….Proverbs 8 is written about the Wisdom of God, would you say this was about Jesus or is Wisdom also God?

    Proverbs 8

    22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,
    before his works of old.
    23 I was set up from everlasting,
    from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
    24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth;
    when there were no fountains abounding with water.
    25 Before the mountains were settled,
    before the hills was I brought forth:
    26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
    nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
    27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there:
    when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
    28 when he established the clouds above:
    when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
    29 when he gave to the sea his decree,
    that the waters should not pass his commandment:
    when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
    30 then I was by him, as one brought up with him:
    and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
    31 rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
    and my delights were with the sons of men.

    32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children:
    for blessed are they that keep my ways.
    33 Hear instruction, and be wise,
    and refuse it not.

    How do you view this DavidL? Keep in mind Wisdom is called “She”

    So now you have the Word and Wisdom in the beginning but David is this literal or poetic? Now if you look at John1 which is it? were all things made through Wisdom or the Word?

    The fact is God made all these things without the help of any entity called Wisdom or The Word these are simply attributes of God and figures of expression such as “Misery loves company” Misery is only a feeling it is not an actual entity is it? It doesn’t actually love company does it?

    so again is it Wisdom or the Word or both that have always been with God and are they beings?

    Notice that in the beginning of the creation of the heavens and earth, the angels are already there do you read anywhere where in the creation story where it mentions God making the Angels? But they were already there and participating:

    Genesis 3:24
    So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

    So it doesn’t seem to agree with your idea that John1:1 and Genesis agree to be talking about the same things at all.

    March 19, 2015 at 10:10 pm#791060
    Miia
    Participant

    What was in the beginning (concerning Genesis) was God, His Spirit, and His spoken Word.

    All are part of God, just like your spirit and your word is a part of you.

    Then, God spoke His Word through His Son Jesus Christ.

    I believe we can call Jesus “God” without blaspheming, though the Father is the only God to a Christian.

    Any problems with that?

    March 19, 2015 at 10:35 pm#791069
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    So what should a Christian do about the term “son of God”? how do you decide when you say God which would you be talking about? Why can’t God simply be Sovereign and we show HIM the ultimate respect.

    By the way nick you are right I did say “therefore” but ironically you seemed to find something wrong with the term, did you also have a problem with Jesus saying it? When I said it I was directly referring to the fact that they were punished not because they had no idea what they were taught by God but for the very reason they knew what was expected of them, Therefore I was correct.

    March 19, 2015 at 10:38 pm#791072
    Miia
    Participant

    And yes, Jesus is the Son of God as Adam was the Son of God, only difference is that Jesus was sinless. I believe God foreknew this (God knows everything that happens before it happens), and so God became His Father before He was even conceived if that makes sense? So, Jesus became the SECOND ADAM, and had no earthly father. “Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”

    March 19, 2015 at 10:45 pm#791073
    Miia
    Participant

    So what should a Christian do about the term “son of God”? how do you decide when you say God which would you be talking about? Why can’t God simply be Sovereign and we show HIM the ultimate respect.

    Bd, we know God is the Father and only God, but sometimes when discussing Jesus, “God” is used for the son, because He is the spokesperson for God. “If you have seen me (Jesus), you have seen the Father” scripture says.

     

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