Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2013,21:55)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 11 2013,21:44)

The Son is the eternal life that WAS WITH the Father. It doesn't say that the Son became the eternal life that began to be with the Father. Eternal life that 'WAS' with the Father in the beginning is eternal in the past. I John 1.

Romans 5:21
……so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23
……the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:11
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Kathi, God is also called “eternal life” in 1 John 5:20. But do you suppose that means the being of God is LITERALLY “eternal life”? Or does it make more sense that it means God can GIVE us eternal life?

In John 17:3, Jesus says “eternal life” is the taking in of knowledge of him and his God. Is that knowledge LITERALLY “eternal life”? Or does it make more sense that taking in this knowledge will LEAD TO eternal life?

John 12:50
I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.

John 17:2
For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

You WANT 1 John 1:2 to say Jesus was “the eternally living being” who was with the Father…….. but it really doesn't say that. Have you forgotten that Jesus DIED? And that he cannot die AGAIN, because the Father has granted HIM eternal life? Our God has even granted him to give eternal life to us – as attested by the last scripture above.

Jesus gave us the opportunity to have eternal life, and because of this, John poetically called him the “eternal life” that was with the Father.

Surely you understand that Jesus isn't LITERALLY “eternal life”, right?

Yes, the Son is an example of eternal life and that example was with the Father in the beginning. He didn't begin to be an example of eternal life, He always was that. He began to give others this eternal life that He was back before creation with the Father.

The 'shoot' died and rose again. The 'root' did not die. Jesus is the root and the shoot!

March 13, 2013 at 3:16 am#338231

Blocked

Kathi, do you think the angel of the LORD, who struck down 185,000 Assyrians, was Jesus?

March 13, 2013 at 3:16 am#338232

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2013,22:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:06)

Mike,
There is NO mention of the Father in my post. It mentions the LORD and the LORD is the God of gods and the Lord of lords. The Lord of the lords is Jesus and the Arm of the LORD.

The verse does not say that the Father saw that there was no one. It says that the LORD saw that there was no one. The LORD has more than one member and one of those members was His own arm that worked salvation for Him (the eternal unity).

Oh, please forgive me and let me rephrase:

Are you seriously saying that Jesus is the LITERAL arm of the God of gods? Is he LITERALLY an EXTREMITY of the God of gods, Kathi?

I thought you believed in TWO Almighty Gods. Have you once again adjusted your “make it up as I go” theology? Have you now concluded that there is but ONE being, and Jesus is the LITERAL ARM of that one being?

There are two members of the LORD, the eternal unity. One of the two members is the arm of the unity, the LORD.

March 13, 2013 at 3:18 am#338233

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:14)

He began to give others this eternal life that He was back before creation with the Father.

But his Father and God GRANTED him to have eternal life in him, Kathi.

Do you see how that doesn't fit with your conclusion?

March 13, 2013 at 3:18 am#338234

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2013,22:16)

Kathi, do you think the angel of the LORD, who struck down 185,000 Assyrians, was Jesus?

Mike,
Not necessarily. I believe angels can do this.

March 13, 2013 at 3:20 am#338236

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2013,22:18)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:14)

He began to give others this eternal life that He was back before creation with the Father.

But his Father and God GRANTED him to have eternal life in him, Kathi.

Do you see how that doesn't fit with your conclusion?

Eternal life was given to the 'shoot' not the 'root' that always was eternally alive.

Jesus is the shoot and the root. It was the 'offspring/shoot' that rose from the dead.

March 13, 2013 at 3:20 am#338237

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:16)

There are two members of the LORD, the eternal unity. One of the two members is the arm of the unity, the LORD.

So the God of gods part of YHWH consists of an arm, two legs, a head, a torso, and two feet……………… but the Lord of lords part of YHWH is only that other arm?

Kathi, show this to me in the scriptures. In fact, show me any scripture that says JESUS was the “arm of the LORD” in ANY OT scripture.

March 13, 2013 at 3:21 am#338238

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2013,22:16)

Kathi, do you think the angel of the LORD, who struck down 185,000 Assyrians, was Jesus?

Mike,
Not necessarily. I believe angels can do this.

But this particular angel was “the arm of the LORD”. So NOW what do you think about it?

March 13, 2013 at 3:22 am#338240

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2013,22:18)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:14)

He began to give others this eternal life that He was back before creation with the Father.

But his Father and God GRANTED him to have eternal life in him, Kathi.

Do you see how that doesn't fit with your conclusion?

Eternal life was given to the 'shoot' not the 'root' that always was eternally alive.

Jesus is the shoot and the root. It was the 'offspring/shoot' that rose from the dead.

So somehow the “root” LOST his ETERNAL life – and it had to be GIVEN BACK to him?

How does one LOSE something that is ETERNALLY his?

March 13, 2013 at 3:24 am#338242

Participant

Mike,
The flesh died. The flesh did not exist eternally. The flesh did not have eternal life until it was given it. The flesh was part of the shoot, not the root.

March 16, 2013 at 10:17 pm#338500

Participant

I have question for u boy. Your father is truly human, arent u a truly human?

March 16, 2013 at 10:18 pm#338501

Participant

Nice sis. Yes the body didnt exist eternaly

March 16, 2013 at 11:47 pm#338512

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2013,21:14)

1. Yes, the Son is an example of eternal life and that example was with the Father in the beginning.

2. He didn't begin to be an example of eternal life, He always was that.

I agree with #1, but I haven't ever seen a scripture that supports #2. In fact, there are many scriptures that argue against #2.

March 16, 2013 at 11:48 pm#338513

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 16 2013,16:17)

I have question for u boy. Your father is truly human, arent u a truly human?

Yes jammin,

My father is truly human BECAUSE he belongs to the SPECIES known as “mankind”. I am truly human because I too belong to that SPECIES.

Now what?

March 17, 2013 at 1:33 pm#338546

Participant

Gud boy .do u believe that human is your NATURE?

March 18, 2013 at 3:24 am#338569

Blocked

Whoa! Slow your roll. Let's finish the first point first, okay?

I and my father are “truly human” because we belong to the SPECIES known as “mankind”.

Are Jesus and his Father “truly God” because they both belong to the SPECIES known as “Godkind”? YES or NO?

March 20, 2013 at 9:56 am#338844

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2013,14:24)

Whoa! Slow your roll. Let's finish the first point first, okay?

I and my father are “truly human” because we belong to the SPECIES known as “mankind”.

Are Jesus and his Father “truly God” because they both belong to the SPECIES known as “Godkind”? YES or NO?

i still have a question for you

you do believe that you and your father are both human.

my next question is do you believe that your nature is HUMAN?

March 22, 2013 at 2:39 am#339019

Blocked

I answered your first question. Now answer mine BEFORE you ask me another, okay?

Here it is again: I and my father are “truly human” because we both belong to the SPECIES known as “mankind”.

Are Jesus and his Father “truly God” because they both belong to the SPECIES known as “Godkind”? YES or NO?

March 24, 2013 at 10:16 pm#339338

carmel

Participant

Lightenup,Mar. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

The flesh died

Kathy,

Jesus died for us.For our understanding!

The flesh didn't actually die!

Jesus' flesh never initiated any corrosion.

Jesus glorified immediately on death.

Jesus' flesh continued the process of spiritualization.

Paul said that Jesus only tasted death.

Which means that he didn't die like we do!

Hebrews 1:11They shall perish, but thou shalt CONTINUE: OK IT IS CLEAR YOU SHALL CONTINUE.

WHICH MEANS CONTINUE THE PROCESS OF THE SPIRITUALIZATION WHICH JESUS STARTED IN THE LAST SUPPER AFTER GIVING THE BREAD TO GUDAH AND TOLD HIM TO DO HIS WORK QUICKLY.

WHAT WAS THE RUSH FOR ?OBVIOUS! BECAUSE HE STARTED THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS, CONFIRMED WITH THE BLOODY PERSPIRATION

and they shall all grow old as a garment.

12And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

but thou art the selfsame,……..

SO IF JESUS REMAINED THE SELFSAME IT MEANS THAT HE NEVER CHANGED,THEREFORE HE NEVER DIED LIKE US! HE DIED HIS OWN KIND OF DEATH WHICH MEANS CONTINUED THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS.

Now read:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself,

so he hath given the Son also to have life in himself:

GOD HAD GIVEN THE SON TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF.OK?

OBVIOUS: THE SON IS A MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD NO???

SO JESUS' BODY ALTHOUGH IT WAS IN FLESH AND BLOOD,

IT HAD LIFE IN ITSELF.

THEREFORE THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING IT STILL HAD LIFE IN ITSELF

IT IS THE SPIRIT, THE SON'S AS FLESH SUBSTANCETHAT GIVES LIFE!

SINCE IT WAS COMPOSED FROM GOD'S OWN SPIRIT, THEREFORE GOD'S OWN SUBSTANCE, THE SON'S WHICH CAME FROM HEAVEN!!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

March 27, 2013 at 3:59 am#339743