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Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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  • February 22, 2013 at 2:24 am#336507
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 21 2013,10:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,09:51)
    jammin, are the words “Jesus Christ” in the Greek mss of that verse TWICE – like the GW implies?  YES or NO?


    you call it alteration bec it does not support your imagination.


    I call it an alteration because it is one. The words “Jesus Christ” are NOT in 1 John 5:20 TWICE, like the GW renders it. Therefore, that “translation” IS an alteration.

    February 22, 2013 at 2:31 am#336508
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,13:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2013,12:40)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2013,21:43)
    Which part do you want scriptures for?


    This part:

    He was an entity of the same kind as Himself, within Him and then born/begotten/brought forth from out of Him.


    Heb 1:3 the exact representation of his being,

    Phil 2:6 He existed in the form of God,

    Psalm 2:7  “You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.”

    Begotten-Strong's 3205 Hebrew
    yalad: to bear, bring forth, beget


    None of the scriptures you quoted say Jesus existed from eternity within the Father.  In fact, the last one supports my point – that at some time (today), the Father BEGOT His Son.  (This tells us that Jesus wasn't His Son BEFORE THAT TIME.)

    And if I remember correctly, the Hebrew word “yalad” means “bring forth – ALWAYS IN THE CASE OF CHILDBIRTH”.

    I remember Jack and Keith once trying to find a use of that word that DIDN'T have to do with childbirth.  They were not successful.

    February 22, 2013 at 2:54 am#336513
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,12:24)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 21 2013,10:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,09:51)
    jammin, are the words “Jesus Christ” in the Greek mss of that verse TWICE – like the GW implies?  YES or NO?


    you call it alteration bec it does not support your imagination.


    I call it an alteration because it is one.  The words “Jesus Christ” are NOT in 1 John 5:20 TWICE, like the GW renders it.  Therefore, that “translation” IS an alteration.


    LOL what is the use of greek if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THE VERSE? LOL

    if you want to prove your argument then you must shoe me a version that says in 1john 5.20 that Christ is NOT THE TRUE GOD.

    boy you argument is so weak. commentaries also support my view.
    study hard boy LOL

    February 22, 2013 at 3:28 am#336523
    terraricca
    Participant

    Jammin

    Quote
    if you want to prove your argument then you must shoe me a version that says in 1john 5.20 that Christ is NOT THE TRUE GOD.

    1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    how can you believe that Christ his his father the God almighty, were did you pick that up ,because it is not in the scriptures not thought by Jesus disciples,???

    February 22, 2013 at 4:42 am#336533
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,20:31)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,13:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2013,12:40)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2013,21:43)
    Which part do you want scriptures for?


    This part:

    He was an entity of the same kind as Himself, within Him and then born/begotten/brought forth from out of Him.


    Heb 1:3 the exact representation of his being,

    Phil 2:6 He existed in the form of God,

    Psalm 2:7  “You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.”

    Begotten-Strong's 3205 Hebrew
    yalad: to bear, bring forth, beget


    None of the scriptures you quoted say Jesus existed from eternity within the Father.  In fact, the last one supports my point – that at some time (today), the Father BEGOT His Son.  (This tells us that Jesus wasn't His Son BEFORE THAT TIME.)

    And if I remember correctly, the Hebrew word “yalad” means “bring forth – ALWAYS IN THE CASE OF CHILDBIRTH”.

    I remember Jack and Keith once trying to find a use of that word that DIDN'T have to do with childbirth.  They were not successful.


    Mike,
    A child exists before they are begotten/born. A begettal does not indicate a beginning of existence.

    Jehovah always existed. Jesus is Jehovah. No conception needed.

    1 John 1:1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    February 22, 2013 at 5:03 pm#336565
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,09:42)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,20:31)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,13:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2013,12:40)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2013,21:43)
    Which part do you want scriptures for?


    This part:

    He was an entity of the same kind as Himself, within Him and then born/begotten/brought forth from out of Him.


    Heb 1:3 the exact representation of his being,

    Phil 2:6 He existed in the form of God,

    Psalm 2:7  “You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.”

    Begotten-Strong's 3205 Hebrew
    yalad: to bear, bring forth, beget


    None of the scriptures you quoted say Jesus existed from eternity within the Father.  In fact, the last one supports my point – that at some time (today), the Father BEGOT His Son.  (This tells us that Jesus wasn't His Son BEFORE THAT TIME.)

    And if I remember correctly, the Hebrew word “yalad” means “bring forth – ALWAYS IN THE CASE OF CHILDBIRTH”.

    I remember Jack and Keith once trying to find a use of that word that DIDN'T have to do with childbirth.  They were not successful.


    Mike,
    A child exists before they are begotten/born. A begettal does not indicate a beginning of existence.

    Jehovah always existed. Jesus is Jehovah. No conception needed.

    1 John 1:1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.


    Kathi

    Quote
    Jehovah always existed. Jesus is Jehovah. No conception needed.

    hoops;

    Col 1:15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
    Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together

    scriptures do not agree with you

    I believe in scriptures rather than humans

    February 23, 2013 at 7:10 am#336634
    carmel
    Participant

    mikeboll64,Feb. wrote:

    [/quote]

    Quote
    If he is a son, then he was conceived.  

    Mike,

    Read:

    Luke 10:21 1 In that same hour, he rejoiced in the Holy Ghost, and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent,

    (LIKE WHAT YOU PRETEND YUO ARE)

    and hast revealed them to little ones.

    (LIKE THOSE WHO NEVER LIMIT GOD'S ATTRIBUTES)

    Yea, Father, for so it hath seemed good in thy sight.

    22 All things( SO HE IS NOT A SON ONLY LIKE YOU AND ME!!!)

    are delivered to me by my Father; and no one knoweth who the Son is,but the Father;

    ( NOW TELL ME MIKE IS THIS SON WHO WAS CONCEIVED , BECAME A SON ONLY IN THAT MANNER??? LIKE YOU AND ME ???)

    and who the Father is,

    (IS THIS FATHER CALLED  A FATHER  ONLY BECAUSE HE HAD CONCEIVED A SON??? IN THE SAME AND ONLY MANNER LIKE WE ALL BECOME SO???)

    but the Son, and to whom the Son will reveal him

    HOW COME NOW THAT AFTER ALL ONLY THE SON,DECIDE TO WHOM HE WOULD REVEAL  THE  FATHER???

    SINCE THE FATHER WAS, IS, AND REMAIN A SPIRIT FOR ETERNITY???

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    February 23, 2013 at 9:31 am#336638
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,09:42)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,20:31)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,13:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2013,12:40)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2013,21:43)
    Which part do you want scriptures for?


    This part:

    He was an entity of the same kind as Himself, within Him and then born/begotten/brought forth from out of Him.


    Heb 1:3 the exact representation of his being,

    Phil 2:6 He existed in the form of God,

    Psalm 2:7  “You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.”

    Begotten-Strong's 3205 Hebrew
    yalad: to bear, bring forth, beget


    None of the scriptures you quoted say Jesus existed from eternity within the Father.  In fact, the last one supports my point – that at some time (today), the Father BEGOT His Son.  (This tells us that Jesus wasn't His Son BEFORE THAT TIME.)

    And if I remember correctly, the Hebrew word “yalad” means “bring forth – ALWAYS IN THE CASE OF CHILDBIRTH”.

    I remember Jack and Keith once trying to find a use of that word that DIDN'T have to do with childbirth.  They were not successful.


    Mike,
    A child exists before they are begotten/born. A begettal does not indicate a beginning of existence.

    Jehovah always existed. Jesus is Jehovah. No conception needed.

    1 John 1:1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.


    Kathi

    wen does the child start inside of a surrogate mother ???

    February 23, 2013 at 9:37 am#336640
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 23 2013,12:10)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,12:22)


    Quote
    If he is a son, then he was conceived.  

    Mike,

    Read:

    Luke 10:21 1 In that same hour, he rejoiced in the Holy Ghost, and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent,

    (LIKE WHAT YOU PRETEND YUO ARE)

    and hast revealed them to little ones.

    (LIKE THOSE WHO NEVER LIMIT GOD'S ATTRIBUTES)

    Yea, Father, for so it hath seemed good in thy sight.

    22 All things( SO HE IS NOT A SON ONLY LIKE YOU AND ME!!!)

    are delivered to me by my Father; and no one knoweth who the Son is,but the Father;

    ( NOW TELL ME MIKE IS THIS SON WHO WAS CONCEIVED , BECAME A SON ONLY IN THAT MANNER??? LIKE YOU AND ME ???)

    and who the Father is,

    (IS THIS FATHER CALLED  A FATHER  ONLY BECAUSE HE HAD CONCEIVED A SON??? IN THE SAME AND ONLY MANNER LIKE WE ALL BECOME SO???)

    but the Son, and to whom the Son will reveal him

    HOW COME NOW THAT AFTER ALL ONLY THE SON,DECIDE TO WHOM HE WOULD REVEAL  THE  FATHER???

    SINCE THE FATHER WAS, IS, AND REMAIN A SPIRIT FOR ETERNITY???

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    carmel

    Lk 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

    my scripture says the wise and the learned (educated )

    yes this was the case THE WISE MEN AT HIS TIME (SELF WISE THAT IS ) AND THE LEARNED OR WELL EDUCATED ( THE KNOW IT ALL LIKE THE DOCTORS OF THE LAW, PHARISEES AND THE ALIKE )

    AND WHAT ???

    Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

    February 23, 2013 at 5:03 pm#336665
    carmel
    Participant

    terraricca,Feb. wrote:

    [/quote]

    Quote
    Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

    Terraricca,

    Which scripture is the above?

    Now read this:

    KJV: John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    Now the word ascend has nothing to do with return to the Father. Jesus never meant that he had to go to his Father in heaven.

    the words ascend unto means

    to ascend to a higher state in view of His Father, which means that Jesus was not yet in the power of the Father when he spoke to Magdalene. He had only resurrected as a spiritual flesh being.But later in the evening of that same day He glorified in the power of the Father when the Holy Spirit united with Jesus and became one with the Father.

    That was the process of the glorification,first He was raised  from death since He died as man,and then the Holy Spirit,His soul,united with the flesh body. The same way which will eventually happen to us!

    Now read:

    John 20:19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews,

    came Jesus and stood in the midst,

    Notice: This time Jesus entered through the walls,and stood in the midst of them. So He never bothered that they will touch Him,like He did when He mett Magdalene,obvious because He ascended in the power of the Father, and  He had the power to protect them.

    Now read this:

    22……………. he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    So Jesus  confirmed that He was in the power of the Father,this time since:

    HE BREATHED ON THEM AND  GAVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST.

    THAT WAS AN ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER ,WHICH WAS DONE WHEN HE BREATHED  ONTO ADAM.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    February 23, 2013 at 8:45 pm#336674
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 23 2013,22:03)

    terraricca,Feb. wrote:

    [/quote]

    Quote
    Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

    Terraricca,

    Which scripture is the above?

    Now read this:

    KJV: John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    Now the word ascend has nothing to do with return to the Father. Jesus never meant that he had to go to his Father in heaven.

    the words ascend unto means

    to ascend to a higher state in view of His Father, which means that Jesus was not yet in the power of the Father when he spoke to Magdalene. He had only resurrected as a spiritual flesh being.But later in the evening of that same day He glorified in the power of the Father when the Holy Spirit united with Jesus and became one with the Father.

    That was the process of the glorification,first He was raised  from death since He died as man,and then the Holy Spirit,His soul,united with the flesh body. The same way which will eventually happen to us!

    Now read:

    John 20:19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews,

    came Jesus and stood in the midst,

    Notice: This time Jesus entered through the walls,and stood in the midst of them. So He never bothered that they will touch Him,like He did when He mett Magdalene,obvious because He ascended in the power of the Father, and  He had the power to protect them.

    Now read this:

    22……………. he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    So Jesus  confirmed that He was in the power of the Father,this time since:

    HE BREATHED ON THEM AND  GAVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST.

    THAT WAS AN ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER ,WHICH WAS DONE WHEN HE BREATHED  ONTO ADAM.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    carmel

    Quote
    HE BREATHED ON THEM AND GAVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST.

    THAT WAS AN ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER ,WHICH WAS DONE WHEN HE BREATHED ONTO ADAM.

    no ,that was to provide a double gift to the first youngest son of Joseph :double portion ; because at the Pentecost they received with all others the second portion of the holy spirit ,

    so this his the fulfillment of that prophecy ,

    February 24, 2013 at 2:43 pm#336775
    carmel
    Participant

    terraricca,Feb. wrote:

    [/quote]

    Quote
    to the first youngest son of Joseph

    Terraricca,

    What do you mean by the above : SON OF JOSEPH

    Also:

    explain this MESS!!!

    that was to provide a double gift to the first youngest son of Joseph :double portion ; because at the Pentecost they received to the first youngest son of Joseph the second portion of the holy spirit ,

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    February 25, 2013 at 1:31 am#336835
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:28)
    Jammin

    Quote
    if you want to prove your argument then you must shoe me a version that says in 1john 5.20 that Christ is NOT THE TRUE GOD.

    1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    how can you believe that Christ his his father the God almighty, were did you pick that up ,because it is not in the scriptures not thought by Jesus disciples,???


    it did not say that the son is not the true God.
    dont imagine boy. show me a version.

    you understand the verse the wrong way.

    let me post again
    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    see.. that is very clear. christ is the true God in that verse.
    the father is the true God
    the son is also the true God

    February 25, 2013 at 2:41 am#336845
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:31)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:28)
    Jammin

    Quote
    if you want to prove your argument then you must shoe me a version that says in 1john 5.20 that Christ is NOT THE TRUE GOD.

    1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    how can you believe that Christ his his father the God almighty, were did you pick that up ,because it is not in the scriptures not thought by Jesus disciples,???


    it did not say that the son is not the true God.
    dont imagine boy. show me a version.

    you understand the verse the wrong way.

    let me post again
    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    see.. that is very clear. christ is the true God in that verse.
    the father is the true God
    the son is also the true God


    so Christ lied to all of us by telling us all that he was the son and in reality according to your bible he was truly God almighty and the father ,

    could you explain why he did that ???

    February 25, 2013 at 2:48 am#336846
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,21:42)
    Mike,
    A child exists before they are begotten/born. A begettal does not indicate a beginning of existence.


    Kathi,

    I mentioned before that surely God would have known how we humans would understand the words “son”, “father”, “begotten”, and “firstborn”……. and also what those words implied.

    These following translations of Psalm 2:7 give creedence to my claim:

    NET ©
    This very day I have become your father!

    NIV ©
    today I have become your Father.

    NLT ©
    Today I have become your Father.

    BBE ©
    this day have I given you being.

    Even the translators that render it as “begotten” surely understand what the word “begotten” means.

    In answer to your claim in the quote box above, I offer this info from the TWOT, concerning the Hebrew word “yalad”:

    In its narrowest sense yalad describes the act of a woman in giving birth to a child (e.g. Exo 1:19; 1Ki 3:17-18), but it is sometimes used of the father's part in becoming a parent (e.g. Gen 4:18; Gen 10:8, Gen 10:24, Gen 10:26; Gen 22:23; Gen 25:3; 1Ch 1:10-20, Pro 23:22).

    Those bolded words above got me to thinking:  What exactly IS “the father's part” in becoming a parent?  Isn't it the act of CONCEPTION itself?  It sure is.

    So while you may be technically correct in saying that a child existed in the womb before the MOTHER begot him (by the act of childbirth), you cannot say the child existed before the FATHER begot him.  Because the FATHER'S part in the act of “begetting” a child is the part where the child is actually CONCEIVED.

    In other words:

    A MOTHER begets a child through the process of bringing that child to term, and giving birth.

    On the other hand, a FATHER begets a child through the act of CONCEPTION alone.  He has no further involvement in the act of begetting a child, right?  

    I believe the TWOT has shot down your ludicrous claim that Jesus existed within his Father as a separate being before his Father begot him.

    February 25, 2013 at 2:52 am#336847
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 23 2013,00:10)
    22 All things( SO HE IS NOT A SON ONLY LIKE YOU AND ME!!!)

    are delivered to me by my Father; and no one knoweth who the Son is,but the Father;


    Romans 8:32
    He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

    John 14:7
    If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

    February 25, 2013 at 3:14 am#336848
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 21 2013,19:54)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,12:24)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 21 2013,10:26)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,09:51)
    jammin, are the words “Jesus Christ” in the Greek mss of that verse TWICE – like the GW implies?  YES or NO?


    you call it alteration bec it does not support your imagination.


    I call it an alteration because it is one.  The words “Jesus Christ” are NOT in 1 John 5:20 TWICE, like the GW renders it.  Therefore, that “translation” IS an alteration.


    LOL what is the use of greek if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THE VERSE? LOL

    boy you argument is so weak. commentaries also support my view.
    study hard boy LOL


    I understand the meaning of the verse, jammin.  Apparently, so does this commentator:

    Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

    ……that we may know him who is true, even the True God, and get eternal life from him through his Son,

    It is so OBVIOUS that the true God mentioned in that verse is the One who has a Son named Jesus.  Why do you people purposely blind yourselves?  The answer can be found in the words of a different commentator:

    Barnes' Notes on the Bible

    There has been much difference of opinion in regard to this important passage; whether it refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, the immediate antecedent, or to a more remote antecedent – referring to God, as such. The question is of importance in its bearing on the doctrine of the divinity of the Saviour; for if it refers to him, it furnishes an unequivocal declaration that he is divine. The question is, whether John “meant” that it should be referred to him?

    See that jammin?  Barnes (along with everyone else) realizes that IF they can persuade certain BLIND SHEEP that 5:20 calls Jesus the true God, it will provide them with “unequivocal declaration” that Jesus is God Almighty.

    Are you able to see the blatant BIAS at work in Barne's own words?  :)  It's like he is ADMITTING to us that he is opting for Jesus to be the “true God” in that verse, simply because he WANTS Jesus to be God Almighty.

    And this is what you people do.  You PRETEND that totally nonsensical things actually do make sense – as long as it promotes the comically flawed, man-made doctrine of Satan that you all support.

    How pathetic.

    February 25, 2013 at 3:21 am#336850
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 23 2013,22:03)

    terraricca,Feb. wrote:

    [/quote]

    Quote
    Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

    Terraricca,

    Which scripture is the above?

    Now read this:

    KJV: John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    Now the word ascend has nothing to do with return to the Father. Jesus never meant that he had to go to his Father in heaven.

    the words ascend unto means

    to ascend to a higher state in view of His Father, which means that Jesus was not yet in the power of the Father when he spoke to Magdalene. He had only resurrected as a spiritual flesh being.But later in the evening of that same day He glorified in the power of the Father when the Holy Spirit united with Jesus and became one with the Father.

    That was the process of the glorification,first He was raised  from death since He died as man,and then the Holy Spirit,His soul,united with the flesh body. The same way which will eventually happen to us!

    Now read:

    John 20:19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews,

    came Jesus and stood in the midst,

    Notice: This time Jesus entered through the walls,and stood in the midst of them. So He never bothered that they will touch Him,like He did when He mett Magdalene,obvious because He ascended in the power of the Father, and  He had the power to protect them.

    Now read this:

    22……………. he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    So Jesus  confirmed that He was in the power of the Father,this time since:

    HE BREATHED ON THEM AND  GAVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST.

    THAT WAS AN ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER ,WHICH WAS DONE WHEN HE BREATHED  ONTO ADAM.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    carmel

    Quote
    THAT WAS AN ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER ,WHICH WAS DONE WHEN HE BREATHED ONTO ADAM.

    this is not the same ;in Geneses it says ;and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

    YOU CAN SEE THAT JESUS DID NOT BREATHED IN HIS DISCIPLES NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIVE ,SEE THEY WERE ALIVE AND NOT IN THE POSITION OF ADAM (BEING BUILT) AND NEVER HAD A BREATH IN SIDE OF HIS BODY OR LUNGS.

    February 27, 2013 at 2:34 am#337047
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Kathi?

    February 27, 2013 at 3:23 am#337054
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:41)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:31)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:28)
    Jammin

    Quote
    if you want to prove your argument then you must shoe me a version that says in 1john 5.20 that Christ is NOT THE TRUE GOD.

    1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    how can you believe that Christ his his father the God almighty, were did you pick that up ,because it is not in the scriptures not thought by Jesus disciples,???


    it did not say that the son is not the true God.
    dont imagine boy. show me a version.

    you understand the verse the wrong way.

    let me post again
    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    see.. that is very clear. christ is the true God in that verse.
    the father is the true God
    the son is also the true God


    so Christ lied to all of us by telling us all that he was the son and in reality according to your bible he was truly God almighty and the father ,

    could you explain why he did that ???


    he is not lying. he is the son. did i say that Christ is not the son? LOL

    but what you are telling is not the WHOLE TRUTH/

    the bible say he is the son. yes he is the son of God.

    but the bible also says that he is God by nature just like his father. this is the part that youy do not want to believe bec for you christ is not God but god.
    God is not god.

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