Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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July 13, 2012 at 1:04 pm#305799

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Colter @ July 14 2012,06:51)

Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,16:46)

I am stopped at the word THIS WORLD i do not understand the meaning of it ,in the sentence it is not specified so I have reservation for the first or second and third coma

The Son of God who incarnate with the name specified for him by Gabriel is the co-creator of “this world”. He is indistinguishably unified in the ONE-ness of divinity, as a personified expression of The Father. He is eternal, there never was a time when the Son was the Son and the Father not A Father.

The stumbling block for man is of “conception” of what God is. He's not an old man with a beard on a throne.

God is spirit, and much much more, manifest in the plurality of his creator Sons, unified in divinity as ONE.

Colter

July 13, 2012 at 3:14 pm#305805

carmel

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 13 2012,18:29)

Quote (carmel @ July 13 2012,17:35)

Edj,

I'm afraid you ignored the fact that the origin of the lineage is not calculated through the woman.

SO WHY ARE YOU CALCULATED JESUS LINEAGE THROUGH MARY.

SHOW SCRIPTURE REGARDING LINEAGE WHERE IT IS CALCULATED THROUGH THE WOMAN.

peace and love in Jesus
Charles

Hi Charles,

Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.
And Yes of course – Jesus' father was the HolySpirit – one generation.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Quote

Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.

Edj,

Those lineages are only for the flesh, they are not proper normal lineages they are there only to make us aware that Jesus mother was Mary,and also who MARY was. But as Jesus' lineage, as such there isn't any, since there's no carnal Father.

Therefore the only Jesus' lineage there is, is of GOD, through the Holy Spirit, therefore ETERNAL.

Now answer is Jesus lineage ETERNAL ??

Peace and love in Jesus

July 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm#305817

Wakeup

Participant

Carmel.

Revelation 22:16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I AM THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID,AND THE BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR.(?).

wakeup.

July 13, 2012 at 11:04 pm#305822

Ed J

Participant

Quote (carmel @ July 14 2012,02:14)

Quote (Ed J @ July 13 2012,18:29)

Quote (carmel @ July 13 2012,17:35)

Edj,

I'm afraid you ignored the fact that the origin of the lineage is not calculated through the woman.

SO WHY ARE YOU CALCULATED JESUS LINEAGE THROUGH MARY.

SHOW SCRIPTURE REGARDING LINEAGE WHERE IT IS CALCULATED THROUGH THE WOMAN.

peace and love in Jesus
Charles

Hi Charles,

Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.
And Yes of course – Jesus' father was the HolySpirit – one generation.

God bless
Ed J

Quote

Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.

Edj,

Therefore the only Jesus' lineage there is, is of GOD, through the Holy Spirit, therefore ETERNAL.

Now answer is Jesus lineage ETERNAL ??

Peace and love in Jesus

Hi Charles,

I answered your query concerning Jesus' lineage?
What specifically do you want to know now?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 14, 2012 at 5:31 am#305838

jammin

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2012,10:16)

Quote (jammin @ July 11 2012,22:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:34)

jammin,

Are you aware of the fact that most of the translations you quote scripture from have been doctored by Trinitarian human beings who are trying their best to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what they WANT them to teach? In other words, do you KNOW what you're doing, or are you simply oblivious to this fact?

i still a have a question for you boy. answer me first

jammin,

I've addressed your “nature” question repeatedly – at least 7 different times on 3 different threads.

Either answer my question or don't. I don't really care.

ill repeat my question
i dont your explanation boy

mike boy
your father is HUMAN
are you not HUMAN?

Christ's father is GOD
is Christ not GOD?

you just pick yes or no
the question is categorical

July 14, 2012 at 6:22 am#305841

Ed J

Participant

Quote (jammin @ July 14 2012,16:31)

your father is HUMAN
are you not HUMAN?

Christ's father is GOD
is Christ not GOD?

Hi Jammin,

What about Christ's mother?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 14, 2012 at 3:45 pm#305850

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,06:55)

…that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God…

….you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven….

Colter,

It seems the UB relies on as much confusion as the human teaching of the Trinity Doctrine. You say Jesus IS our God/Father in heaven, yet you quote him speaking about “MY Father in heaven”, and about “God” as someone OTHER THAN him.

Also, it is clear from MANY scriptures that the God OF Jesus raised him from the dead. You say Jesus could raised himself from the dead, because only his flesh was dead. But if Jesus didn't die exactly like the rest of us die, then Jesus wasn't raised from the same death the rest of us die. And if that was the case, then his resurrection has nothing to do with us, because we die differently from the way he died.

How can Jesus be the firstborn of many from the dead if he didn't die like the rest of us die? If death didn't truly have mastery over him, then Romans 6:9 is a lie. So is 1 Cor 15:12-23. (Verse 15 says that if God didn't truly raise Jesus from the dead, then we are false witnesses about God, for we claim He did.)

When Jesus said “I will raise it up”, he was speaking metaphorically, like if I said, “I am flying to Denver tonight”. Obviously I can't fly, so it is a metaphorical statement meaning I'm going to be a passenger on a plane that is flying to Denver.

Compare with this scripture:
2 Kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

The wording seems as if Elijah, by his own power, went up to heaven. But we know from the context of the passage that he was TAKEN UP to heaven BY GOD.

Likewise, we know from the MANY scriptures that say “God raised Jesus” and “he was raised from the dead”, that Jesus did not raise himself.

So you can say “I will raise” and “God raised” are saying the same thing, but that doesn't do away with all the times scripture tells us Jesus “WAS RAISED”.

peace,
mike

July 14, 2012 at 7:01 pm#305879

carmel

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ July 06 2012,19:05)

Quote

J42,

Now TO CONFUSE YOU EVEN FURTHER, reflect on the scriptures hereunder.

Quote

John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye DID EAT OF THE LOAVES, and WERE FILLED.

Quote

NOTICE: DID EAT OF THE LOAVES, and WERE FILLED.

Jesus made it clear that they followed him only because

THEY DID EAT OF THE LOAVES, SO through consuming the bread

They were hungry, and if they hung around, they got a free feed.
These people did not see the miracle he just performed by walking on water, no no no no, they were seeking Christ because they were hungry for food, the type of food that perishes.

This next verse clarifies it, as Jesus warns them
John 6:27 Labor not for the meat that perishes, but for the meat which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Whom has God the Father sealed?
For those who labour for the food that gives everlasting life, which is the truth, the Word of God, and not for those who come to Christ for the material rewards.

Quote

ALSO HE SAID THAT THEY WERE FILLED. Definitely with His Spirit.

They were filled because their bellies were satisfied.
No mention of their spirit's being filled. Hence the warning Christ gave them.

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Quote

Now let’s reflect on another statement by Jesus regarding bread hereunder!

Quote

Matthew 4:4 Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live,(BUT IN THE ENTIRE EOOD) but in every word(SPIRIT) that proceedeth from the mouth of God. (SINCE THE WORD,[JESUS' SPIRIT], OF GOD IS IN THE ENTIRE CREATION

We all need bread to fuel our bodies, can't change that, we don't eat, we die….but we are all going to die one day anyway, so if we eat the bread that comes from heaven (real spiritual food) then our spirits are nourished and when death arrives it will not mean it is the end for us, but the beginning.
For if we eat that spiritual food (Christs flesh) and he is the Word of God, then we are soaking in that truth which comes from God delivered to us through his Son and no other.

Quote

There’s something in common in both scriptures, and definitely is the SPIRITUAL WORK.

The only thing in common, is that both types are eating. One is eating the material food, and the other is eating the spiritual food

Quote

In John 6:26 He said you did eat of the loaves In Matthew 4:4 He said:

Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

So if it is NOT IN BREAD ALONE THAT MAN LIVES, how is it contrary, in the other, and said YOU DID EAT OF THE LOVES,AND WERE FILLED.

I explained already, their bellies were filled.

Quote

So what did really Jesus mean? He seems contradicting Himself, in one he says not in bread alone, and in the other He said because you eat the BREAD. loaves.

Yes if you don't seek the true meaning behind Christ's words, you will think a contradiction, however, the veil is taken of our eyes and we understand his speech and exactly what he is warning about.

Quote

Can you see it or not??

Yes absolutely.
Many come to Christ, or go to church for what they can get, and not for the truth.
Many will come because they want to be healed
Many will come because they seek a partner
Many will come because they are poor and know the church will feed them
Many will come because they need a job, or have no home
Many will come because they are lonely and want friends
Many will come because they have a business, and will find new clients
Many will come because they want to be a leader, and have power and position
Many will come for all sorts of reasons, for self gain, for material things, and not because they generally want to know the truth.
This type does not know how to worship God in spirit and in truth
We are given a beautiful invitation for the chance of receiving salvation, in order to do this we must concentrate on what we can give back to God, and not take take take or want want want….
and what pleases him is to see us coming closer to him by learning his Word, and actually living it by removing sin from our lives. This is what will bring us closer to him,
and if we don't study his Word, then we will not see his plan, or his will and our faith will be blind, for we will be open doorway to all deception and he does not want this.

He wants us to come to him, as we have been given a second chance to make things right, and the only way to do this is to feed upon Christ's flesh (The Word of God) as righteousness truth and salvation does not come from any other food.

Quote

They were filled because their bellies were satisfied.
No mention of their spirit's being filled. Hence the warning Christ gave them.

J 42,

WITH EVERY RESPECT: Completely wrong I’m afraid.

You simply ignored the fact that Jesus mission was firs
t and foremost SPIRITUAL, and all carnal healings, or deeds, by Jesus were only to achieve spiritual DEEDS through them more then anything else. This to prove to Satan that good is superior to evil, and although MATTER IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME, WAS evil since it belonged to Satan, God through Jesus, GOD’S MATTER, Would still accomplishes spiritual deeds. LIGHT SHINES THROUGH DARKNESS,AND DARKNESS COMPREHENDED NOT.In the entire gospels there is not a single event which was carnal only. In fact in Nazareth Jesus couldn’t perform miracles (SPIRITUAL DEEDS) since they REJECTED HIM, So he couldn’t even simply forgive their sins, AND LEFT.

Mark 6:5And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. 6And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

In the miracle of the bread, He fed them more SPIRITUAL food, then CARNAL. The filling of the bellies was over and done with, in the MANNA of the OT. It was Jesus turn then to supply the spiritual bread. Jesus made it clear that He Himself is the real bread which came down from heaven, DIRECT from the FATHER. The fact that the bread was through a miracle (DIRECT FROM THE FATHER) , is more then enough to make us aware that the bread was A SPIRITUAL DEED. This is emphasized in those 12 baskets leftover which they collected. So, It was not just BREAD ALONE for the BELLIES from that moment in time onwards, but more spiritual bread for the soul. This is the beauty of God, for the simple reason, that SATAN WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT SINCE HUMANS ARE MATTER,AND LOVE EATING,MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE, GOD through Jesus supplied them bread which nourishes both the soul, and the body.

If you are under the impression that Jesus did the miracle to fill their bellies, with every respect, you are still a child in this matter and need MILK NOT MEAT. Jesus, never came from heaven just to fill peoples’ bellies, or do anything similar for the body. Generally speaking, Jesus was NEVER interested in feeding the body MORE THEN FEEDING THE SOUL, the substance of his own spirit, and the MAIN reason He died for. It is the spirit which gives life, the flesh (stomach) counts for nothing, and they received spiritual bread for their souls, and satisfied also their bellies more then usual.

Matthew 10: 28 And fear ye not them that kill the BODY, and are not able to kill the SOUL: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.

It seems you never read the above scripture!! So now you have no doubt that Jesus was never interested in the body,more then the soul.
So why according to you, He should do such miracle for the bellies only???

Jesus to prove that the flesh counts for nothing, He massacred His body, died on the cross, and He won both the SOUL ( as the second ADAM) and also the FLESH BODY(the second EVE in MARY His flesh substance, created with His own Spirit through nature ) and commenced a new SPIRITUAL creation, God’s kingdom in TRUE CHRISTIANS? on earth, ALTHOUGH Satan’s kingdom.

So if you are not aware of the actual reason that God as man in Jesus came down from heaven, you’d better start a new SPIRITUAL DIET .

AS TRUE CHRISTHIANS? WE ARE AT WAR ALL THE TIME IN SATAN’S OWN PROPERTY. NOT WITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT WE WERE TOTALLY HIS.

So Jesus, although He replaced Satan’s spirit from our entire creation, and recreated us spiritually, He never left us on our own struggling incessantly without any spiritual support. He said Himself that He will never leave us alone in this non stop war, for the simple reason that we are useless on our own, and not capable enough to achieve the least spiritual deed in this evil earth, especially today more then ever, since NOTHING IS SIN, never mind perfection. So He made it MUCH MORE possible for us through endless rivers of graces, which most of them we are not being aware of.

ACQUIRED THROUGH THE LEAST SPIRITUAL DEED ACCOMPLISHED,

EVEN GIVING SOMEONE A GLASS OF WATER.

Matthew 10:42And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

NOTICE: ONLY IN THE NAME OF A DISCIPLE.

SO I WONDER WHAT WOULD ONE RECEIVE IF WE DO GOOD SPIRITUAL DEED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, THE WORK OF GOD .

THE LABOUR FOR THE EVERLASTING FOOD. THE WORK OF GOD IN JESUS BELIEFE, THROUGH CHARITY IN EVERY SENSE,AND IN WHATEVER GOOD WE DO IN LOVE. Without love, SINCE GOD IS LOVE ITSELF, we would simply destroy the spiritual deed acquired if we would have done it in LOVE, and faith in Jesus, THE WORK OF GOD. Through which we would have received graces upon graces a fundamental element that Jesus died for.

Now reflect hereunder, whether Jesus was concerned more about the SPIRITUAL food for the SOUL then about the CARNAL FOOD for the BODY!

Matthew 6:25 And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. 29 But I say to you, that NOT EVEN SOLOMON in all his glory was arrayed( dressed) as one of these.

Did Jesus really consider Solomon’s clothing, which definitely without a doubt were extravagant?? DEFINITELY NOT, He CONSIDERRED THE STATE OF HIS SOUL WHICH WAS OCCUPIED(DRESSED) BY SATAN’S SPIRIT,WHICH EVENTUALY TOOK HIM TO HELL.

31 Be not SOLICITOUS therefore, saying, what shall we EAT:( SPIRITUAL FOOD) or what shall we DRINK, (SPIRITUAL DRINK)or wherewith shall we be CLOTHED? (SPIRITUAL CLOTHING) ( THESE ARE THREE FUNDAMENTAL SPIRITUAL ELEMENTS,WHICH JESUS DIED FOR IN ORDER TO FURNISH US WITH SANCTIFIED GRACES TO NOURISH OUR SOULS.

33 Seek you therefore FIRST the kingdom of God, and his justice, ALL THESE THINGS shall be added unto you.

FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THE MYSTICAL BODY OF CREATION

Is the kingdom of God CARNAL?? DEFINITELY NOT!!

And His justice SPIRITUAL definitely YES !!

Which is THE redemption of the SOUL, and the SPIRITUAL LIFE on earth, notwithstanding the fact that Satan is the owner of the world.

WAS HE WORRIED THEN ABOUT THE BODY??? DEFINITELY NOT!!

SO HE SUPPLIED FREE OF CHARGE !!!

CLOTHING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN US, AND
FOOD, AND DRINK, ALL THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS, AND TO LIVE A SPIRITUAL LIFE BY THE GOSPEL.

THE NOURISHMENTS BOTH FOR THE SOUL TO MATURE IN VIRTUES, AND ALSO TO SPIRITUALIZE THE FLESH BODY, AND BECOME ONE ON THE LAST DAY ACCORDINGLY.

The more the soul controls, and mortifies the lust of the flesh, the more automatically the body would spiritualize itself , and on the last day would unite with the soul accordingly,

Reflect in dept on this scripture now:

psalm 72:16 There shall be an HANDFULL OF CORN in the earth upon the top of the MOUNTAINS ; the FRUIT thereof shall SHAKE like Lebanon: and they of the city shall FLOURISH like grass of the earth.

WAS THE MIRACLE OF THE BREAD FOR THE BELLIES ONLY??

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

July 14, 2012 at 8:16 pm#305882

carmel

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2012,10:04)

Quote (carmel @ July 14 2012,02:14)

Quote (Ed J @ July 13 2012,18:29)

Quote (carmel @ July 13 2012,17:35)

Edj,

I'm afraid you ignored the fact that the origin of the lineage is not calculated through the woman.

SO WHY ARE YOU CALCULATED JESUS LINEAGE THROUGH MARY.

SHOW SCRIPTURE REGARDING LINEAGE WHERE IT IS CALCULATED THROUGH THE WOMAN.

peace and love in Jesus
Charles

Hi Charles,

Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.
And Yes of course – Jesus' father was the HolySpirit – one generation.

God bless
Ed J

Quote

Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.

Edj,

Therefore the only Jesus' lineage there is, is of GOD, through the Holy Spirit, therefore ETERNAL.

Now answer is Jesus lineage ETERNAL ??

Peace and love in Jesus

Hi Charles,

I answered your query concerning Jesus' lineage?
What specifically do you want to know now?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Quote

I answered your query concerning Jesus' lineage?
What specifically do you want to know now?

Edj, and Wakeup,

My question should have been :

Is Jesus ORIGIN,(not lineage) eternal?

peace and love in Jesus

Charles

July 14, 2012 at 8:30 pm#305883

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2012,02:45)

Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,06:55)

…that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God…

….you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven….

Colter,

The wording seems as if Elijah, by his own power, went up to heaven. But we know from the context of the passage that he was TAKEN UP to heaven BY GOD.

Likewise, we know from the MANY scriptures that say “God raised Jesus” and “he was raised from the dead”, that Jesus did not raise himself.

So you can say “I will raise” and “God raised” are saying the same thing, but that doesn't do away with all the times scripture tells us Jesus “WAS RAISED”.

peace,
mike

Good post Mike.
Jesus had to die like all of us humans,no difference.
For he was human; flesh,with Gods spirit in him in full.

When jesus was raised from the dead,he was given all authority,and he also will raise us from the dead.(John5:21.22).
And he will be the judge,as he said in John.''the words that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day''.(John12:48). and he is the word.

wakeup.

July 15, 2012 at 2:58 am#305910

jammin

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2012,17:22)

Quote (jammin @ July 14 2012,16:31)

your father is HUMAN
are you not HUMAN?

Christ's father is GOD
is Christ not GOD?

Hi Jammin,

What about Christ's mother?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj
do you believe that Christ became flesh? yes or no?

mike,

im still waiting for your answer boy

July 15, 2012 at 2:59 am#305911

jammin

Participant

mike boy
your father is HUMAN
are you not HUMAN?

Christ's father is GOD
is Christ not GOD?

you just pick yes or no
the question is categorical

July 15, 2012 at 3:10 am#305915

mikeboll64

Blocked

What answer did I give you the last seven times, jammin? Go back through the thread and find out.

Don't you see what just happened here? (The rest of us did) I posed a question to you that you would rather not answer, and so you've played your old trusty “answer mine first” card yet again. But the problem is that all of us know I've addressed your “nature” point countless times already.

So for you to pretend that I'M the one avoiding a question from you when it is truly YOU who is avoiding my last question is just shows who you are.

July 15, 2012 at 3:21 am#305917

mikeboll64

Blocked

jammin, you are rapidly ruining what little good reputation you ever had on this site. You run around calling everyone “boy” and asking the same questions we've already answered before.

But since your memory doesn't seem to be the greatest, he we are one more time:

YES, my father is human, and therefore I am A human – but not the SAME human as my father.

And YES, Christ's Father is God, and therefore, he is A god – but not the SAME god as his Father.

NOW, answer my last question to you. Here it is again:

July 15, 2012 at 3:24 am#305918

terraricca

Participant

Quote (jammin @ July 15 2012,20:59)

mike boy
your father is HUMAN
are you not HUMAN?

Christ's father is GOD
is Christ not GOD?

you just pick yes or no
the question is categorical

:ghostface:

July 15, 2012 at 7:54 am#305925

Ed J

Participant

Quote (carmel @ July 15 2012,07:16)

Edj, and Wakeup,

My question should have been :

Is Jesus ORIGIN,(not lineage) eternal?

peace and love in Jesus

Charles

Hi Charles, thanks for being more specific! …the answer is “Yes”.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands
of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 15, 2012 at 7:58 am#305926

Ed J

Participant

Quote (jammin @ July 15 2012,13:58)

Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2012,17:22)

Quote (jammin @ July 14 2012,16:31)

your father is HUMAN
are you not HUMAN?

Christ's father is GOD
is Christ not GOD?

Hi Jammin,

What about Christ's mother?

God bless
Ed J

edj
do you believe that Christ became flesh? yes or no?

mike,

im still waiting for your answer boy

Hi Jammin; “Christ” was born – as we all were.

Heb 2:16-17 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful
and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 15, 2012 at 12:59 pm#305939

Spock

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2012,02:45)

Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,06:55)

…that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God…

….you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven….

Colter,

The wording seems as if Elijah, by his own power, went up to heaven. But we know from the context of the passage that he was TAKEN UP to heaven BY GOD.

Likewise, we know from the MANY scriptures that say “God raised Jesus” and “he was raised from the dead”, that Jesus did not raise himself.

So you can say “I will raise” and “God raised” are saying the same thing, but that doesn't do away with all the times scripture tells us Jesus “WAS RAISED”.

peace,
mike

Hi Mike,

Understanding or not understanding, believing in or not believing in the Trinity is not a hindrance or requirement to salvation.

Sincere believers, such as yourself, tend to over analyse spiritual truth, spiritual reality, to the point of missing it; Jesus was a miraculous person, he was the Son of God incarnate in the person of Jesus of Nazereth. If he was not then it is not because of extra-biblical speculation that has lead some to beleive him to be Eternal and Divine, it was Jesus then who mislead us, that is where the logical conclusion of the anti-pre-existent Son of God argument leaves us; with a temporary man-God in heaven.

Religionist commit a tragic disaster when the unknowlinlg dumb things down because they don't understand them at the expense of the profound truth.

I understand the concept of Jesus “Christ Michael” as an eternal Son, inseparably unified in divinity with the spirit Father, as co-creator of this world, but I don't really claim to grasp the personification of the Father in his divine Sons.

It is because Jesus was a duel origin being, at times speaking as a human, subject to the will of the Father, and at other times by divine rite, he appears to contradict himself.

If Jesus was in fact a divine Son (indistinguishably unified in Oneness with the Father) and he incarnate for the purpose of acquiring unquestioned authority and power of his own co-creation, then it is entirely conceivable for him to relinquish his human form at death (it is finished) and return in a new form of his own making (you act as if you've seen a ghost).

NOTICE, Lazerus was resurrected in his original burial clothes, Jesus' burial cloths remain in the tomb, he is now adorned in white clothing, tells Mary not to touch him, he now appears and disappears at will, passes through walls. That's just not the original body of Jesus.

[ btw, Jesus never defined the meaning of the death on the cross, however the theology of the Pagan's who adopted evolving Christianity already had a concept of a sacrificed savoir]

The miraculous, incarnate human person of Jesus died just like we all die, only he returned to the eternal glory he had at the right hand of the Father, we are just beginning, we are finite.

The reason given by Jesus for resurrecting himself from the dead was to prove his authority as it had been questioned. [Jesus had already instructed the apostles NOT to tell the world who he was until he left]

Caino

July 15, 2012 at 1:20 pm#305941

Spock

Participant

The celestials of the Urantia Revelation discuss the whereabouts of Jesus during the three days that the body of Jesus lay in the tomb.

DURING THE SABBATH DAY

188:3.1 Throughout this Sabbath day the disciples and the apostles remained in hiding, while all Jerusalem discussed the death of Jesus on the cross. There were almost one and one-half million Jews present in Jerusalem at this time, hailing from all parts of the Roman Empire and from Mesopotamia. This was the beginning of the Passover week, and all these pilgrims would be in the city to learn of the resurrection of Jesus and to carry the report back to their homes.

188:3.2 Late Saturday night, John Mark summoned the eleven apostles secretly to come to the home of his father, where, just before midnight, they all assembled in the same upper chamber where they had partaken of the Last Supper with their Master two nights previously.

188:3.3 Mary the mother of Jesus, with Ruth and Jude, returned to Bethany to join their family this Saturday evening just before sunset. David Zebedee remained at the home of Nicodemus, where he had arranged for his messengers to assemble early Sunday morning. The women of Galilee, who prepared spices for the further embalming of Jesus’ body, tarried at the home of Joseph of Arimathea.

188:3.4 We are not able fully to explain just what happened to Jesus of Nazareth during this period of a day and a half when he was supposed to be resting in Joseph’s new tomb. Apparently he died the same natural death on the cross as would any other mortal in the same circumstances. We heard him say, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.” We do not fully understand the meaning of such a statement inasmuch as his Thought Adjuster had long since been personalized and so maintained an existence apart from Jesus’ mortal being. The Master’s Personalized Adjuster could in no sense be affected by his physical death on the cross. That which Jesus put in the Father’s hands for the time being must have been the spirit counterpart of the Adjuster’s early work in spiritizing the mortal mind so as to provide for the transfer of the transcript of the human experience to the mansion worlds. There must have been some spiritual reality in the experience of Jesus which was analogous to the spirit nature, or soul, of the faith-growing mortals of the spheres. But this is merely our opinion—we do not really know what Jesus commended to his Father.

188:3.5 We know that the physical form of the Master rested there in Joseph’s tomb until about three o’clock Sunday morning, but we are wholly uncertain regarding the status of the personality of Jesus during that period of thirty-six hours. We have sometimes dared to explain these things to ourselves somewhat as follows:

1. The Creator consciousness of Michael must have been at large and wholly free from its associated mortal mind of the physical incarnation.

2. The former Thought Adjuster of Jesus we know to have been present on earth during this period and in personal command of the assembled celestial hosts.

3. The acquired spirit identity of the man of Nazareth which was built up during his lifetime in the flesh, first, by the direct efforts of his Thought Adjuster, and later, by his own perfect adjustment between the physical necessities and the spiritual requirements of the ideal mortal existence, as it was effected by his never-ceasing choice of the Father’s will, must have been consigned to the custody of the Paradise Father. Whether or not this spirit reality returned to become a part of the resurrected personality, we do not know, but we believe it did. But there are those in the universe who hold that this soul-identity of Jesus now reposes in the “bosom of the Father,” to be subsequently released for leadership of the Nebadon Corps of the Finality in their undisclosed destiny in connection with the uncreated universes of the unorganized realms of outer space.

4. We think the human or mortal consciousness of Jesus slept during these thirty-six hours. We have reason to believe that the human Jesus knew nothing of what transpired in the universe during this period. To the mortal consciousness there appeared no lapse of time; the resurrection of life followed the sleep of death as of the same instant.

188:3.10 And this is about all we can place on record regarding the status of Jesus during this period of the tomb. There are a number of correlated facts to which we can allude, although we are hardly competent to undertake their interpretation.

188:3.11 In the vast court of the resurrection halls of the first mansion world of Satania, there may now be observed a magnificent material-morontia structure known as the “Michael Memorial,” now bearing the seal of Gabriel. This memorial was created shortly after Michael departed from this world, and it bears this inscription: “In commemoration of the mortal transit of Jesus of Nazareth on Urantia.”

188:3.12 There are records extant which show that during this period the supreme council of Salvington, numbering one hundred, held an executive meeting on Urantia under the presidency of Gabriel. There are also records showing that the Ancients of Days of Uversa communicated with Michael regarding the status of the universe of Nebadon during this time.

188:3.13 We know that at least one message passed between Michael and Immanuel on Salvington while the Master’s body lay in the tomb.

188:3.14 There is good reason for believing that some personality sat in the seat of Caligastia in the system council of the Planetary Princes on Jerusem which convened while the body of Jesus rested in the tomb.

188:3.15 The records of Edentia indicate that the Constellation Father of Norlatiadek was on Urantia, and that he received instructions from Michael during this time of the tomb.

188:3.16 And there is much other evidence which suggests that not all of the personality of Jesus was asleep and unconscious during this time of apparent physical death.

July 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm#305942

terraricca

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colter

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were is this in scriptures you what you believe must be the truth and not Gods truth but your s the most liberal one ,were lies and some truth seems to mingle ,the gray line like some call it ,

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Religionist commit a tragic disaster when the unknowlinlg dumb things down because they don't understand them at the expense of the profound truth.

what you are trying to say is ;that you have it and all others do not right ,:D this is why you can not stand the scriptures they always remind you that their is a truth of God ,this must be frustrating

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Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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