Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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July 8, 2012 at 2:25 am#305274

jammin

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2012,01:52)

Quote (jammin @ July 06 2012,21:09)

now for your next question. the bible says that christ is eternal just like his father.

John 1:1

Amplified Bible (AMP)

1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.

Actually, that was a man saying [before all time], jammin – not the Bible.

John 15:27
And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning [before all time].

Just because I ADD [before all time] into that scripture doesn't mean that's what Jesus actually said.

Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

This scripture speaks of the origins of Jesus, so he is apparently not from eternity. And look at what verse 4 tells us:

4 He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God.

jammin, this verse tells us that Jesus will shepherd the flock in the strength of HIS GOD. Why would someone who is almighty by nature need the strength of his own God to shepherd the flock?

jammin, these translators and commentators you rely on are constantly adding their own words into the scriptures – words that clearly contradict other scriptures.

Have you noticed that you quote the most recent Trinitarian Bibles, and not the older ones like the KJV, NASB, or NRSV? Have you noticed the trend that has been taking place since those older Bibles were translated? It's like the Trinitarians are getting bolder and bolder as time goes by – like one of them ADDED his own words to make the scripture teach what he wanted it to teach, and the others started thinking, “Hey, that's a great idea! Let's also do that with our translation!”

So more and more, we have been seeing the production of Bibles in which the translators don't add a footnote, but just incorporate their own beliefs right into the scripture itself, making it seem to the unwitting like that is what the actual scripture says. It is a scam and very deceptive and untruthful. Yet THESE are the kinds of Bibles you like to quote, because they tell you what your itching ears like to hear. Paul warned about that, jammin:

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

The sound doctrine is that there is but one God, the Father, who has a Son named Jesus who serves Him as High Priest. But that's not what your itching ears want to hear, so you gather around you people like Gill and Barnes – teachers who say what your itching ears DO want to hear. And that makes me sad for you. You say you know Greek? Well, put away these makeshift translations you thrive on, and get your Biblical understanding from the Greek words. Then you won't get fooled by the added words of men trying to FORCE the scriptures to teach what they WANT them to teach.

peace,
mike

you are a false teacher mike. you twist the bible but the bible is clear.
let me ask you a question
is mic 5.2 refers to flesh body of Christ? yes or no?
if yes, the flesh body has its origin. do you agree? yes or no?

July 8, 2012 at 2:54 am#305279

mikeboll64

Blocked

jammin,

You're the one making the claim that Jesus is from eternity by using a falsified Bible as “proof”. How is it that you call ME the false teacher then?

And Micah wrote his prophecy hundreds of years BEFORE Jesus had a flesh body, so how could he say his origins were from “ancient times”?

July 8, 2012 at 3:06 am#305280

Ed J

Participant

Hi Mike,

Like those who borrow – vow not to do favors again when they get burned,
“Scripture” burns: so those who are seeking rewards will not continue therein.

Now how this ties into why the AKJV Bible is the way God wanted it…
'the fakes' will stumble over “Scripture” – as 1Peter 3:16 says…

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 8, 2012 at 3:07 am#305281

Ed J

Participant

(Ezek 7:16-20) “But they that escape of them shall escape, and shall be on the mountains like doves of the valleys,
all of them mourning, every one for his iniquity. 17 All hands shall be feeble, and all knees shall be weak
as water. 18 They shall also gird themselves with sackcloth, and horror shall cover them;
and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads.

19 They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold
shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls,
neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity. 20 As for the beauty of his ornament,
he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations and of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them.”

July 8, 2012 at 3:12 am#305282

journey42

Participant

Wakeup,July wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Luke 10:All things are delivered to me by my Father; and no one knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and to whom the Son will reveal him.

You seem to have missed something in this verse.
Only those whom the Son reveals will know the Father. Only those.
So how can you say?
WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT GOD IS!!
WE DON'T KMOW WHAT IS THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN GOD ALMIGHTY, AND GOD!!
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE DIFERRENCE BETWEEN THE FATHER, AND GOD ALMIGHTY, SINCE ONE IS A PERSON,AND THE OTHER IS A TITLE.

The scriptures say only Christ can reveal the Father …not the difference between the Father and God almighty?. Read the key words…It's speaking about the Father and the Son, and you are adding your own words to prove a point only valid to yourself.
See how easy it is to twist the scriptures into making it say what you want it to say, and not actually reading what the word is declaring?

If you don't know who God is, and still confused, then it obviously has not been revealed to you by Christ yet.

When God declares that Christ is his son, all over the scriptures, then this is a big statement. The Son knows his father, and the Father knows his Son.
You are taking the glory away from whom Christ really is,
and he is the Son of God.
If you are going to preach, preach it clear and simple.
We have a Father in heaven, and he has a son, whom he sent to this earth to reveal the truth and give salvation to mankind.
If you use the word God for Jesus, then the people won't see the relationship between them, for there are many so called Gods around. We have to be specific and tell the people that it's God's actual son we have to listen to and follow, and he is worthy because he is God's own Son.

July 8, 2012 at 3:18 am#305283

jammin

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2012,13:54)

jammin,

You're the one making the claim that Jesus is from eternity by using a falsified Bible as “proof”. How is it that you call ME the false teacher then?

And Micah wrote his prophecy hundreds of years BEFORE Jesus had a flesh body, so how could he say his origins were from “ancient times”?

that is a prophecy mike

i do not need your explanation mike.
answer my question
is mic 5.2 refers to flesh body of Christ? yes or no?
if yes, the flesh body has its origin. do you agree? yes or no?

July 8, 2012 at 5:19 pm#305315

mikeboll64

Blocked

No jammin,

I DON'T believe it refers ONLY to the flesh body of Jesus. Why would it? In fact, if you read Gill and Barnes on it, you can see them trying hard to say it must refer to the flesh body, because we know Jesus himself is from eternity.

See how that works? They go into the scripture already “knowing” something that has never been taught in any scripture, and therefore conclude that it must be speaking ONLY of his flesh body because of this other thing we've already concocted in our own heads.

But my point still remains: How could Micah, hundreds of years BEFORE Jesus became flesh, refer to his flesh origins as being “from ancient times”?

The simple answer is “He wouldn't”. Micah is clearly referring to the origins of Jesus himself, not just his flesh body. And only those with pre-conceived notions to maintain would even think it must refer ONLY to his flesh body – because there is no reason from the actual scriptures to think that.

Are you beginning to see how these commentators and translators have “doctored” the Bible in an effort to FORCE their truth to be the scriptural truth?

Think it out, jammin. If it referred ONLY to Jesus' flesh body, then the rest of the passage would also refer ONLY to Jesus' flesh body. So do you think it makes sense that “Jesus's flesh body” is going to rule over Israel in the strength of his God, Jehovah?

July 9, 2012 at 12:34 am#305360

jammin

Participant

what if i can read to you that mic 5.2 refers to his family line, will you accept that you are a false teacher mike?
yes or no?

July 9, 2012 at 12:55 am#305364

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ July 08 2012,18:34)

what if i can read to you that mic 5.2 refers to his family line, will you accept that you are a false teacher mike?
yes or no?

Of course it refers to his family line. He is of the tribe of Judah, just like his fleshly ancestor David. But it is teaching that this one who will later be brought forth of the line of David has really existed for a long time already.

July 9, 2012 at 1:01 am#305365

jammin

Participant

therefore the verse is talking to the flesh body of christ boy.
thanks for the answer.
you are really a false teacher

July 9, 2012 at 1:16 am#305367

mikeboll64

Blocked

No jammin,

It is talking about whoever will shepherd the flock of Israel in the strength of his God.

Do you suppose that “the flesh body of Jesus” is what will shepherd Israel in the strength of its God?

Is our Lord a flesh body, jammin?

July 9, 2012 at 1:30 am#305370

jammin

Participant

the verse talks about family origin or christ.
and that is the body boy.
christ became man.

July 9, 2012 at 1:35 am#305371

mikeboll64

Blocked

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
A FLESH BODY who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”

Is that what you think it means, jammin?

July 9, 2012 at 1:54 am#305375

jammin

Participant

Micah 5:2

Contemporary English Version (CEV)

2 Bethlehem Ephrath,
you are one of the smallest towns
in the nation of Judah.
But the Lord will choose
one of your people
to rule the nation—
someone whose family
goes back to ancient times.[a]

Micah 5:2

The Message (MSG)

2But you, Bethlehem, David's country,
the runt of the litter—
From you will come the leader
who will shepherd-rule Israel.
He'll be no upstart, no pretender.
His family tree is ancient and distinguished.

study hard boy

July 9, 2012 at 6:26 am#305393

carmel

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2012,13:54)

jammin,

You're the one making the claim that Jesus is from eternity by using a falsified Bible as “proof”. How is it that you call ME the false teacher then?

And Micah wrote his prophecy hundreds of years BEFORE Jesus had a flesh body, so how could he say his origins were from “ancient times”?

Quote

And Micah wrote his prophecy hundreds of years BEFORE Jesus had a flesh body, so how could he say his origins were from “ancient times”?

Mike,

May I ask you a simple question??

How did Jesus became a fetus in Mary's womb??

Definitely not through a human sperm!

Now if not through a human sperm, what conceived Mary's ovum??

Definitely the Father through the Holy Spirit.

So my question is :

Since the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit and conceived in Mary's womb and became a fetus, and then was born as a boy,

IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

YES OR NO!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

July 9, 2012 at 10:44 pm#305432

Ed J

Participant

Quote (carmel @ July 09 2012,17:26)

So my question is :

Since the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit and conceived in Mary's womb and became a fetus, and then was born as a boy,

IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

YES OR NO!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

Hi Charles, there are three answers to your question.

1. Jesus' flesh – no
2. Jesus' spirit – yes
3. Jesus' lineage – back to Adam (through Mary)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 9, 2012 at 11:44 pm#305437

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ July 09 2012,00:26)

IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

YES OR NO!!

No.

God can raise up children for Abraham out of stones, Charles. But that wouldn't mean those He raised up out of stones have existed from eternity – despite the fact that God would have personally and DIRECTLY brought them into existence.

July 9, 2012 at 11:51 pm#305438

mikeboll64

Blocked

jammin,

Doesn't it make you the least bit ashamed to quote translations in which YOU KNOW they've ADDED their own words to FORCE the scripture to teach what they WANT it to teach? I know you are an intelligent person, so doesn't something click in your brain when you're reading these blatantly doctored translations? Doesn't your mind ask the question, “Hmmmm………. Why would they have to doctor the book if it truly taught what they want it to teach?”

The fact is that they doctor the book when it DOESN'T teach what they want it to teach. And in the case of Micah 5:2, it teaches about the ancient ORIGIN of Jesus Christ. They don't WANT it to teach about the ORIGIN of Jesus, and so they are forced to doctor it.

Show me from the Hebrew where Micah 5:2 speaks of any “family tree”.

July 10, 2012 at 12:14 am#305441

jammin

Participant

that is the real meaning of the verse mike boy.
i do not know if you know how to read. LOL
why dont you read well your bible

Micah 5:2

Good News Translation (GNT)
God Promises a Ruler from Bethlehem
2 The Lord says,
Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose family line goes back to ancient times.

study hard boy.

read well your bible and stop sniffing mosquito coil

July 10, 2012 at 12:17 am#305442

jammin

Participant

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
“out of thee shall come forth unto me a Judge, that is to be ruler in Israel, and this is the King Messiah; for because he is to be of the seed of David, from Bethlehem he will be.''

study hard boy

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Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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