Home Scripture & Verse Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God? Page 44

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

Viewing 20 posts - 861 through 880 (of 1,982 total)
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  • April 17, 2012 at 11:35 pm#293032
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ April 17 2012,01:30)
    John 1:14

    New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

    14 The Word became a human being. He made his home with us. We have seen his glory. It is the glory of the one and only Son.

    dont you believe that?


    I believe the Greek word “monogenes” means “only begotten”, just like it has been translated for centuries into English.  It is a relatively new practice to translate that Greek word as “one and only” – a practice that began because Trinitarians knew it didn't sound “right” that the one they swear is God Himself was “begotten”.  I mean, think about it………….. could God Almighty be “begotten”?   ???

    So nowadays, the common practice is to pretend the word means “one and only”.  The problem with that is that the word “monos”, by itself, means “only”.  So if the writer wanted to say “only Son of God”, then he wouldn't need the “genes” part at the end.  Here is an example of “monos” used alone:
    Matthew 24:36 NRSV ©
    But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    In the above scripture, not only can you see the word “monos” in use (without the “genes” suffix), but you can see yet another proof that Jesus is not God Almighty Himself.  Because how could “God” not know what “God” knows?  ???

    Anyway, the “genes” part is derived from the Greek word “ginomai”, which has as it's first definition, 1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being.  And the word “monogenes” is used in scripture about 6 times to refer to a man's only-begotten child.  The Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes list as one of their definitions, 1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God.

    jammin, I agree with you that Jesus is the Son of God in a way unique to the way the other angels and men are sons of God.  But I hope you come to realize that by saying Jesus has the nature OF God, you are at the same time admitting that Jesus is NOT God.  Because in order to have the nature OF someone else, you can't actually BE that someone else.

    April 17, 2012 at 11:39 pm#293033
    Spock
    Participant

    For me trusting Gods guidance is to be obedient to his will. You must be confusing Gods will with church manipulation through doctrine formation and book fetish. I'm aware that you were abused so you are only trying that on me.

    Colter

    April 17, 2012 at 11:41 pm#293034
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Colter,
    His will is in part that we abide in the teachings.

    April 17, 2012 at 11:44 pm#293035
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Colter,
    Abuse certainly is the fruit of the whore and yet insecure men are addicted to her control.

    April 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm#293040
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,10:41)
    Hi Colter,
    His will is in part that we abide in the teachings.


    Jesus didn't teach to follow the teachings of men. He didn't write down his teaching. He didn't say that we should all think alike only that we should be unified in doing Gods will..

    Colter

    April 17, 2012 at 11:58 pm#293044
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Colter,
    So your doubts have limited your trust in the sacred words?
    What is your foundation?

    April 18, 2012 at 12:21 am#293051
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,10:58)
    Hi Colter,
    So your doubts have limited your trust in the sacred words?
    What is your foundation?


    My foundation is The Rock

    Scripture didn't reveal the identity of the Son to the apostles, it was The Rock.

    Jesus sent the spirit helper as an aditional gift to guide us into all truth.

    Colter

    April 18, 2012 at 7:39 am#293123
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Colter,
    Yes but the Rock of Christ said that the rock is his teachings.
    lk 6.48
    mt 7.24
    The Word becomes for some a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense

    April 18, 2012 at 8:53 am#293128
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2012,10:35)

    Quote (jammin @ April 17 2012,01:30)
    John 1:14

    New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

    14 The Word became a human being. He made his home with us. We have seen his glory. It is the glory of the one and only Son.

    dont you believe that?


    I believe the Greek word “monogenes” means “only begotten”, just like it has been translated for centuries into English.  It is a relatively new practice to translate that Greek word as “one and only” – a practice that began because Trinitarians knew it didn't sound “right” that the one they swear is God Himself was “begotten”.  I mean, think about it………….. could God Almighty be “begotten”?   ???

    So nowadays, the common practice is to pretend the word means “one and only”.  The problem with that is that the word “monos”, by itself, means “only”.  So if the writer wanted to say “only Son of God”, then he wouldn't need the “genes” part at the end.  Here is an example of “monos” used alone:
    Matthew 24:36 NRSV ©
    But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    In the above scripture, not only can you see the word “monos” in use (without the “genes” suffix), but you can see yet another proof that Jesus is not God Almighty Himself.  Because how could “God” not know what “God” knows?  ???

    Anyway, the “genes” part is derived from the Greek word “ginomai”, which has as it's first definition, 1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being.  And the word “monogenes” is used in scripture about 6 times to refer to a man's only-begotten child.  The Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes list as one of their definitions, 1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God.

    jammin, I agree with you that Jesus is the Son of God in a way unique to the way the other angels and men are sons of God.  But I hope you come to realize that by saying Jesus has the nature OF God, you are at the same time admitting that Jesus is NOT God.  Because in order to have the nature OF someone else, you can't actually BE that someone else.


    did i say that the son is the father?? the son is not the father!

    but they have the same nature, GOD

    exmple mike
    you and your father have the same nature, MAN.

    are you your father?or you are his son?

    do you understand? or just pretending that you dont understand this truth?

    April 18, 2012 at 8:57 am#293129
    jammin
    Participant

    you are both MAN. but it does not mean that you are also your faTHER.

    you are truly man just like your father.

    your nature is man mike. you are not GOD by nature. but christ is God by nature. he became flesh. he came down from heaven. he is the son of GOd.

    think about it mike

    April 18, 2012 at 8:58 am#293130
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Are you not a son of God?
    have you not been reborn from above like Jesus?

    April 18, 2012 at 9:15 am#293135
    jammin
    Participant

    nick,

    John 1:12

    American Standard Version (ASV)

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    April 18, 2012 at 9:25 am#293138
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Yes those who have obeyed him and into whom Christ has been born have the right TO BECOME children of God.

    Most do not enter and then some who do become stillborn sons. gal 4.19f

    April 18, 2012 at 12:17 pm#293155
    jammin
    Participant

    nick,

    Christ is God by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    Amplified Bible (AMP)
    6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[a]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [c]or retained,

    he is truly GOD “by nature.”

    do you understand that?

    exmple, you are truly man “by nature”

    April 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm#293156
    jammin
    Participant

    But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to [the regulations of] the Law,

    gal 4.4

    April 18, 2012 at 12:19 pm#293157
    jammin
    Participant

    you cant send a person if he is not yet existing.

    before he became like us, he was in the form of God.
    Philippians 2:6-7

    Amplified Bible (AMP)
    6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[a]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [c]or retained,

    7But stripped Himself [of all privileges and [d]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.

    April 18, 2012 at 7:08 pm#293214
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Is his begotten sonship to God from a woman?

    Was he a begotten son before he was a son?

    Philosophical deductions do not define truth but damage it.
    You need to discern the WORD

    April 18, 2012 at 7:09 pm#293215
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Christ was indeed God as Christ means anointing.
    It is not shorthand for Jesus of Nazareth.

    April 18, 2012 at 11:44 pm#293275
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,02:53)
    did i say that the son is the father?? the son is not the father!

    but they have the same nature, GOD

    exmple mike
    you and your father have the same nature, MAN.

    are you your father?or you are his son?

    do you understand? or just pretending that you dont understand this truth?


    I understand what you're trying to say, jammin.  I just don't think you're understanding your own statements as clearly as you should.  For example, let's imagine that my father was a human being who was alive in 1922, built the Hoover Dam, and was honored for ages because of that great accomplishment.  While I might have the same human nature as him, it wouldn't mean that I was alive in 1922, nor would it mean I had any part of building the Hoover Dam.  You see, I can't apply the lifetime or accomplishments of my father to myself – yet you continually try to do this with Jesus.  Scripture says the FATHER and GOD of Jesus created all things, yet you think because Jesus has the nature of his Father, HE also created all things.  That's just not how it works.

    Let's take my fake scenario about my father a step farther, so I can show you another place where your reasoning is flawed:  Imagine my father's name was “Manfred” (yes, that's a real name), but he was known all his life as “Man”.  When I was begotten by “Man”, I would be equally “a man” like him, but I would not be Man himself, right?

    So when we talk about Jesus being the Son of God, we are talking about him being the Son of a particular PERSON – not the Son of a “species” known as “Godkind” or something.  Yet that is how you apply your reasoning.  

    But our God Jehovah is an individual Person, jammin.  Jesus is not this Person, but the Son OF this Person.  And since this Person is a god (in fact, the Most High of all gods), then it stands to reason that His Son would also have His nature and be a god, but His Son would not be the same God.  And the fact of the matter is that while there exist many gods in heaven and on earth, only one God created all things, and only one God is to be worshipped by us.  And just as I didn't build the Hoover Dam that MY FATHER built, Jesus didn't create the things that HIS FATHER created. And just as I cannot rightfully accept the accolades given to my father for building the Hoover Dam, Jesus cannot rightfully accept the worship due his own Father and God for creating all things.

    Jesus is the Son of God Most High, and therefore cannot be God Most High Himself.

    April 18, 2012 at 11:47 pm#293277
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,06:18)
    But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to [the regulations of] the Law,

    gal 4.4

    you cant send a person if he is not yet existing.


    Good point and good scripture, jammin.

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