Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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March 25, 2012 at 5:27 pm#287529

david

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,15:40)

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:51)

Why does Jammin keep ignoring 1 John 5:20? Isn't that what this discussion is about?

that is the true meaning of 1 john 5.20

john said that Christ is the true GOD.

your opinion will always be an opinion.

until now you cant even read any single verse that Christ is not called the true GOD.

study hard boy

Jammin,

WHERE?

Why haven't you even quoted the actual words and put them in a sentence together before?

You just keep repeating that:
“john said that Christ is the true GOD.”

Did he say those exact words? If not, which words did he actually say in 1 John 5:20 that lead you to believe that thought?

Why do people think that repeating something makes it true?
It doesn't. It is foolish to think that the more times you repeat something that is your opinion (without actually quoting scripture) that it will somehow MAGICALLY become true.

Repeating things does not make them true.
You do understand this? Maybe you don't.

Quote

until now you cant even read any single verse that Christ is not called the true GOD.

It would take you 10 seconds to quote actual words from the Bible that say Jesus is the “true GOD.”

So, why haven't you?

March 25, 2012 at 5:28 pm#287530

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 25 2012,11:01)

SO THE FATHER WAS IN HIS SON'S SUBSTANCE AS FLESH IN MARY AND CONCEIVED HIS SON IN HER WOMB,SO THE FATHER WAS IN HIS SON ON CONCEVEMENT.

Charles,

I've liked you since you joined HN. But I rarely have any idea what you are saying, or how you even came to your understanding from the scriptures I've read.

Anyway, I've started a “Was Jesus Created?” thread for this discussion, so as not to interfere with the topic of this thread.

peace,
mike

March 25, 2012 at 5:30 pm#287531

david

Participant

Quote

Hi Jammin,
Why do you tell us to read the bible when you only partly understand about Three Verses?

–Nick.

Yes, it is so ironic that jammin says things like this, but cannot put together a few words quoted from the Bible to support what he believes.

He just repeats: “1 John 5:20,” And that Christ is the “true God.”

I'm quite certain 1 John 5:20 doesn't actually say that.

And since Jammin is incapable for some reason of showing us where 1 John 5:20 actually says that, I guess he is just making things up. Human opinions are bad, but when you think that by repeating them over and over you can convince others that they are true, without the use of the Bible, you are really only convincing yourself that they are true.

March 25, 2012 at 5:37 pm#287534

david

Participant

Quote

do you understand your logic??

–Jammin to Nick.

Ok, Jammin, you do understand the word “logic” apparently.

So, let's begin there.

Your “logic”is that:

the Bible does not say: 'Christ is NOT the true God.'

You think that statement is logical.

But your logic is INCONSISTENT and therefore, most likely wrong.

It is inconsistent because you do not believe (for example, but use any of a million examples) that Jesus is Michael, and yet, the Bible does not say: “Jesus is not Michael.”

(This is about your logic, and not about Michael. Insert just about any other word in place of Michael.)

Once again, I am not here trying to say that Jesus is Michael, but only using it as an example that you apparently must believe in order for your own LOGIC to remain consistent.

When logic isn't consistent, one must ask why.

March 25, 2012 at 5:39 pm#287535

david

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:42)

Jammin, you said:

“the son is also called the true GOD.”

So I asked:
“In this verse? Where? Please explain. Please explain why your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” when they don't exist in the original writing? Were the original writers right, or was the translation team that added those words right? Please answer this.”

I've actually asked this many times.

Jammin, why are you unable to actually discuss or explain this verse? is it because deep down you know it is just your opinion, and not what the Bible actually says.

For the 7th time, where does it say those words?

And, why do you want to keep it a secret, if you are trying to tell us it's true?

March 25, 2012 at 5:41 pm#287536

david

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:50)

Quote (david @ Mar. 22 2012,17:35)

Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,15:48)

QUESTION:

Where in 1 John 5:20 are we told that Christ is God?

Jammin, I am pretty sure you never answered this.

I don't think you actually have any desire to discuss this scripture.

Do you?

I actually like this scripture and so I like to discuss it.

Why do you refuse to discuss this scripture?

Where in this scripture does it say what you claim it says? Please point it out. Please quote the exact words. If you can't do this, then it seems you have no case and are just expressing your own opinions and not what the bible says.

I no longer think that jammin actually believes what he is saying, because he has no desire to actually discuss 1 John 5:20.
If he wants people to believe that 1 John 5:20 says what he claims, doesn't he know that he would have to actually present some sort of evidence or discussion and not merely repeat his own opinion?

Jammin, this thread is about 1 John 5:20.

Why can't you tell us what it says? Use quotation marks so we know that what you are saying is a quote from the Bible.
Then, say: “See, this is what the bible actually directly says.”

March 25, 2012 at 5:45 pm#287537

david

Participant

I am looking at the LOGIC of 1. and 2. (I am using another example in 3 and 4 to consider if that logic can be trusted, consistently. This post is about the logic of 1 and 2, not about proving that Jesus is Michael.)

1. The Bible doesn't say: “Christ is NOT God”

2. This is proof for Jammin that Christ IS God,

Following the exact same logic:

3. Bible doesn't say: “Christ is NOT Michael the Archangel”

4. This therefore must be proof that Christ IS Michael.

Again, because I know you can't consider the logic and will therefore try to create a strawman fallacy, I am again stating that THIS POST IS ONLY ABOUT THE LOGIC OF YOUR ARGUMENT (1 AND 2)

If Jammin's logic is to be trusted, he must believe that Jesus is Michael.

March 25, 2012 at 7:27 pm#287568

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,02:09)

See Ed?

Now you attempt to play the same twisted game with me. Have I ever claimed that Jesus is the Word simply because there are no scriptures saying he isn't? YES or NO?

We can all see through these games, Ed. And they really reflect poorly on YOU – not on us.

You should reconsider your approach, IMO.

Hi Mike,

Are there any verses that say Jesus is(?) the word?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm#287571

mikeboll64

Blocked

There are verses that TEACH that Jesus is the Word of God, Ed.

But no, there isn't a scripture that specifically states, “Jesus is the Word of God” to my knowledge.

March 25, 2012 at 7:44 pm#287574

NickHassan

Participant

Hi MB,
Scripture is carefully laid out.

It would not say Jesus of Nazareth is the Word of God-because Jesus of Nazareth had to be anointed first[acts 10.38]

John did say he had heard, seen and beheld and handled the WORD in 1 jn1.

But he spoke of the WORD OF LIFE. He said the LIFE was manifested-the ETERNAL LIFE, which was WITH THE FATHER and was manifested to us.

What may have seemed like a reference to Jesus became a clear reference to the Spirit of Life. This Spirit of life is IN Christ Jesus[rom8.2]

This should be a clear statement of what is most important to God- The Spirit and not the flesh

March 25, 2012 at 7:48 pm#287575

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2012,17:41)

Hi MB,
But not of blood.
Not of the desires of men.
jn 1 12

The sons of God are begotten of Him[jn1.12]-His Spirit- and led by the Spirit [rom8].

it says THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD NOT SONS

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only , who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

JN 3:18 “ He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1JN 4:9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.

March 25, 2012 at 8:14 pm#287580

carmel

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 26 2012,04:01)

hi caarmel. i read the whole chapter 17 of john but i cant read your belief.
can you give e the exact verse.

you said that the holy spirit has his own spirit. where is that in john 17?

Quote

you said that the holy spirit has his own spirit. where is that in john 17?

Jammin,

THe Father ,the Son,and the Holy Spirit is God Almighty as a supreme ONE spirit

But individually they function as single spirits,but always with the power of God Almighty.

regarding John 17,

I meant that all the chapter is a demonstration of the individuality of the Father ,Son and Holy Spirit, but also as a triune one God.

Reading 17:1:5,Jesus is referring to His glorifcation,but as we all know it is all through the Holy Ghost,that He eventually was resurrected. So it is the glorification of the Son but also of the Father in the Holy Ghost.

So this Chapter is a direct reference of all the work by the Holy Ghost,onto the Son, through the Father.

17:6:23 Jesus is refering to His disciples,mission and also to all those that follow through their gospel.

So again Jesus is praying to the Father but it is a direct reference to the Holy Ghost's work which eventually would commences His particular direct work from pentecost.

So again through the Holy Spirit we all reciceve both the Son and the Father.

Then 24:26 is the current glory not of the Son but also of the desciples since they evetually would be in the same glory where Jesus would be. So it is the fruit of the Holy Ghost's work on earth through the kingdom of the Son in the Father.The Church. The Bride.

GOD'S KINGDOM ON EARTH THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST.

peace and love in Jesus

Charles

March 25, 2012 at 8:25 pm#287582

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,13:44)

Hi MB,
Scripture is carefully laid out.

It would not say Jesus of Nazareth is the Word of God-because Jesus of Nazareth had to be anointed first[acts 10.38]

It sure is, Nick.

That's why the angel said Jesus was BORN the Christ.

Not only that, but Paul said it was JESUS who was existing in the form of God before being made into a human being.

And Jesus said that HE came down from heaven, not the spirit within me came down from heaven.

Yep, scripture sure is carefully laid out, isn't it?

March 25, 2012 at 8:28 pm#287583

NickHassan

Participant

Hi MB,
Does it say that in Phil 2?
Does it not say CHRIST JESUS?

Do you not know God spoke through him yet?

March 25, 2012 at 8:30 pm#287584

NickHassan

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,06:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2012,17:41)

Hi MB,
But not of blood.
Not of the desires of men.
jn 1 12

The sons of God are begotten of Him[jn1.12]-His Spirit- and led by the Spirit [rom8].

it says THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD NOT SONS

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only , who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

JN 3:18 “ He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1JN 4:9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.

Hi T,
Do you not hope to become a son too?

March 25, 2012 at 8:35 pm#287587

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,14:28)

Hi MB,
Does it say that in Phil 2?
Does it not say CHRIST JESUS?

Do you not know God spoke through him yet?

You say there was no “JESUS” involved with the spirit of Christ until the Jordan, when “JESUS” and the spirit of Christ merged into one being.

If that's the case, then it was the spirit of Christ existing in the form of God in Phil 2, and had nothing to do with the name or person “JESUS” at all.

Yet Paul said “JESUS”, didn't he? Yep, scripture is sure carefully laid out, just like you said.

March 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm#287589

mikeboll64

Blocked

Nick,

If JESUS CHRIST didn't exist until the Jordan, then JESUS CHRIST wasn't existing in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being.

Yet Paul says that not only “JESUS” was existing in the form of God, but that God's “CHRIST” was existing in the form of God.

So not only was the person JESUS there, but he was already God's CHRIST before being made into a human being.

This is why and how JESUS was BORN the Christ of God.

March 25, 2012 at 8:54 pm#287594

carmel

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,04:27)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,15:40)

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:51)

Why does Jammin keep ignoring 1 John 5:20? Isn't that what this discussion is about?

that is the true meaning of 1 john 5.20

john said that Christ is the true GOD.

your opinion will always be an opinion.

until now you cant even read any single verse that Christ is not called the true GOD.

study hard boy

Jammin,

WHERE?

Why haven't you even quoted the actual words and put them in a sentence together before?

You just keep repeating that:
“john said that Christ is the true GOD.”

Did he say those exact words? If not, which words did he actually say in 1 John 5:20 that lead you to believe that thought?

Repeating things does not make them true.
You do understand this? Maybe you don't.

Quote

until now you cant even read any single verse that Christ is not called the true GOD.

It would take you 10 seconds to quote actual words from the Bible that say Jesus is the “true GOD.”

So, why haven't you?

Quote

It would take you 10 seconds to quote actual words from the Bible that say Jesus is the “true GOD.”

David,

Read this :

JOHN 17 :3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

According to you what is the right definition OF:

“that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,”

TO ME IT IS EQUIVALENTto :

The only true God is :

GOD AND JESUS CHRIST,after the glorification of Jesus Christ through the Father by the Holy Ghost

So God must be also Jesus Christ and vice versa.

So God and Jesus Christ are ONE

So God and Jesus Christ are both glorified in One mystical body of Jesus Christ

So it is useless to call true God without referring to Jesus Christ as well.

March 25, 2012 at 11:50 pm#287631

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,06:44)

Hi MB,
Scripture is carefully laid out.

It would not say Jesus of Nazareth is the Word of God-because Jesus of Nazareth had to be anointed first[acts 10.38]

John did say he had heard, seen and beheld and handled the WORD in 1 jn1.

But he spoke of the WORD OF LIFE. He said the LIFE was manifested-the ETERNAL LIFE, which was WITH THE FATHER and was manifested to us.

What may have seemed like a reference to Jesus became a clear reference to the Spirit of Life. This Spirit of life is IN Christ Jesus[rom8.2]

This should be a clear statement of what is most important to God- The Spirit and not the flesh

Hi Nick,

Exactly, certainly John DIDN'T mean touching Jesus about?

“Our hands have handled, of the Word of life” (1 John 1:1)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 25, 2012 at 11:54 pm#287632

Ed J

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 26 2012,07:14)

Jammin,

GOD'S KINGDOM ON EARTH THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST.

peace and love in Jesus
Charles

Hi Carmel, Exactly!

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink;
but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the HolySpirit.
“The kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

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