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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 19,641 through 19,660 (of 25,955 total)
123…982983984…1,2961,2971,298
  • Author
    Posts
  • March 22, 2020 at 5:01 pm#850735
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Mike

    By saying “omnipotent”, I don’t mean that Christ
    stands above the Father, but I mean he has the power to create all things out of nothing,
    (John 1; Hebrews 1; Colossians 1; )
    And I believe he has always done everything in harmony with THE WILL OF THE FATHER..(.before incarnation and after incarnation)

     

    March 22, 2020 at 5:21 pm#850736
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean, Jesus has exactly however much power his and our God has given him. None of the scriptures you listed say Jesus created anything. In fact, the only scripture referring to Jesus creating something is the one where he “fashioned” a whip out of cords.

    I love him. He is my Lord, my King, my Savior, and my Judge. But he and I are brethren, and joint heirs and servants of his and my God and Father.

    March 22, 2020 at 9:41 pm#850743
    Berean
    Participant

    Berean, Jesus has exactly the same power as his own and the power our God gave him. None of the scriptures you have listed say that Jesus created anything. In fact, the only scripture that refers to Jesus’ creation is the one where he “fashioned” a whip with ropes.

    I love him. He is my Lord, my King, my Savior and my Judge. But he and I are brothers and co-heirs and servants of his and my God and Father.

    Mike

    You say one thing and then you contradict yourself…

    I actually misunderstood you.
    I don’t understand…

    The bible says in Colossians, and that’s not the only text:

    “For by him were created all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, powers. All things were created by him and for him.

    1:17 He is before all things, and all things stand by him.”

    ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM.

    If HE is above all else is that He has pre-existed.

    If you love Jesus , you must believe Paul in Colossians 1 and others.

     

     

     

     

    March 22, 2020 at 11:00 pm#850744
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Berean, Context! skip down to Col 1:20 and You can see
    it was by Jesus crucifixion that God Created all things by him – not by Jesus helping create (as your imagination tells you)

    “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, …………….. “slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)
    by him to reconcile all things unto himself” …………”God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor 5:19)

    “whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.” (Col 1:20) … things in Heaven (through the blood of his cross)

    March 22, 2020 at 11:36 pm#850746
    Ed J
    Participant

    None of the scriptures you listed say Jesus created anything. In fact, the only scripture
    referring to Jesus creating something is the one where he “fashioned” a whip out of cords.

    That’s right Mike,

    Berean must believe that *Isaiah 44:24* is somehow wrong ???

    24 “I the LORD that maketh all things;
    that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
    that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; (Isaiah 44:24)

    Here is God’s response to what Berean is pushing:

    25 “That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad;
    that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;” (Isaiah 44:25)

    March 23, 2020 at 1:18 am#850747
    Berean
    Participant

    Excuse me, Edj.
    But you’re talking nonsense.

    March 23, 2020 at 1:23 am#850748
    Berean
    Participant

    You’re fake teachers, pretentious kids who misplace the
    people.

    March 23, 2020 at 3:50 am#850749
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike……AMEN brother, You are exactly right.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    March 23, 2020 at 4:33 am#850750
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:  “For by him were created all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, powers. All things were created by him and for him.”

    Try it this way… “For by THROUGH him were created all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, powers. All things were created by THROUGH him and for him.”

    The KJV’s use of the word “by” here is confusing in modern English.  Today, we’d use the word “through” to convey this scriptural teaching.  For example…

    By-Through

    Even today, the word “by” also means “through”, but we’re more likely today to just use the word “through”.

    Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV

    [1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    In verse 1, we learn that God spoke “by” the prophets.  You wouldn’t take that word “by” to conclude that the prophesies originated with the prophets.  No… you understand that the prophesies originated with God (the actual source) and were relayed to the people THROUGH the prophets, right?

    Likewise in verse 2, God was the source of the info, and He conveyed that info to us THROUGH his Son.

    Likewise in the latter part of verse 2, God made the worlds, and He did that THROUGH his Son.

    1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV

    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    Again, the KJV wording is confusing to those who speak modern English, but it’s clear enough for you to know that all things came OF/FROM God, and they came BY/THROUGH Jesus.  Not FROM God and Jesus together, and not THROUGH God and Jesus together.  But FROM God and THROUGH Jesus.  Just like your own children are FROM God, but they came into this world THROUGH you and your spouse.  And just as you are not the Creator God due to your children coming into the world THROUGH you… Jesus is not the Creator God due to God creating the world THROUGH him.

    Again, I’ll just refer you to Acts 4.  They clearly pray TO the one who actually MADE the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them, right?  And it’s also clear that Jesus is NOT the one they’re praying TO – but the holy servant OF the one they’re praying to.

    So no, Jesus isn’t said to have created anything at all.  What’s taught in scripture is that Jesus’ God created everything… and He did that THROUGH His holy servant Jesus.

     

    March 23, 2020 at 5:01 am#850751
    Berean
    Participant

    no. You’re not telling the truth You deny the divinity of Jesus like Gene, Edj… Jodi …

    Please Read this:

    Colossians 2:9

    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    March 23, 2020 at 5:34 am#850752
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    “Godhead” is a bad translation.   Should be “deity”.  But compare…

    Colossians 1:19

    For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in the Son. 

    If Jesus was already Almighty God from eternity, then your verse and this one above would be senseless.  It would be like saying God chose to place God’s qualities into God.  ???

    I don’t deny Jesus’ divinity nor his deity.  He is indeed a god just like Michael, Gabriel, Satan, Molech, Dagon, and many others are gods according to the scriptures.  But there is only one Most High God OF gods – and Jesus isn’t that one.  Jesus is the holy servant OF that one – just like Michael and Gabriel are holy servants OF that one.  Of course Jesus is higher than those others, because his own God, Yahweh, has given more to Jesus than to those others.

    March 23, 2020 at 5:38 am#850753
    Berean
    Participant

    But unto the Son he(GOD) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    [9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    [10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    jesus christ merely human???

    March 23, 2020 at 5:56 am#850754
    Berean
    Participant

     

    “He is indeed a god just like Michael, Gabriel, Satan, Molech, Dagon, and many others are gods according to the scriptures.”

     

    YOU DON’T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST

    You’re not telling the truth You deny the divinity of Jesus

    DIVINITY = TO BE GOD

     JESUS CHRIST  IS NOT THE GOD ALMIGHTY

                                   BUT

    HE POSSESSES THE SAME DIVINE NATURE OF GOD HIS FATHER

     

     

    March 23, 2020 at 6:12 am#850755
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: “DIVINITY = TO BE GOD”

    2 Peter 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
    Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Surely you don’t think that some of us will BE God when we partake of divine nature, right?

    March 23, 2020 at 6:55 am#850756
    Berean
    Participant

    IN HEBREWS 1
    THE ALMIGHTY GOD
    CALLS HIS SON: O GOD
    WHY?
    BECAUSE HE RECEIVED/INHERITED FROM THE FATHER HIS OWN DIVINE NATURE ON THE DAY OF ETERNITY.(MICAH 5:2)

    “Having been made so much better than the angels, that he inherited a better name than them.”

    THIS BETTER NAME THAN THE ANGELS 

    IS “GOD”(Hebrews 1:8,9)

    March 23, 2020 at 7:22 am#850757
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    The author of Hebrews 1 was quoting a psalm. Who was called “O God” in the original psalm? Also, there are many gods. Being one of them doesn’t equate you to the MOST HIGH God OF gods.

    Yes, Jesus is a god. But he is also a humble servant of his and our God, Yahweh.

    Why do you deny that Jesus is God’s holy servant, Berean?

    March 23, 2020 at 7:22 am#850758
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike
    The answer is to contemplate the Lord Jesus Christ, eat his words and receive his Spirit.
    which is given to those who obey;

    2 Corinthians

    Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
    [17] Now the Lord(Jesus Christ) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    [18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE  from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BECOME A PARTICIPANT IN THE DIVINE NATURE AND IT’S THE PROGRAM OF A LIFETIME.

     

     

    March 23, 2020 at 7:27 am#850759
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    You didn’t answer the question though. Will some of us BECOME God when we partake of divine nature?

    Because if your answer is no, then apparently being divine DOESN’T equal being God like you said before, right?

    March 23, 2020 at 7:34 am#850760
    Berean
    Participant

    The author of Hebrews 1 was quoting a psalm. Who was called “O God” in the original psalm? Also, there are many gods. Being one of them doesn’t equate you to the MOST HIGH God OF gods.

    Yes, Jesus is a god. But he is also a humble servant of his and our God, Yahweh.

    Why do you deny that Jesus is God’s holy servant, Berean?

     

    Mike

    As long as you don’t believe that Jesus is the divine Son of God made FLESH,
    the veil will be over your eyes

    March 23, 2020 at 7:38 am#850761
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    But I most certainly do believe that Jesus is the divine son of God who took on flesh. Therefore no veil… therefore maybe you should consider these things I’m telling you.

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