Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’. (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

This topic has 25,954 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 5 hours, 52 minutes ago by Berean.

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March 21, 2020 at 11:11 am#850713
Berean
Participant
Gene
JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH
JOHN 1:14

THIS IS HIS NAME

THE WORD OF GOD
REVELATION 19:13
March 21, 2020 at 11:24 am#850714
mikeboll64
Blocked
Berean: “About Acts 4:24
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
There is no problem.”
Okay, they say, “Lord, THOU art God”, right? Who are they addressing?
March 21, 2020 at 3:21 pm#850715
Berean
Participant
Mike
They stood up to God.
Now, as I said before, authors don’t always mention…
the “by whom” all things were done.
In Colossians Paul mentions it:
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
1:16 For in him were created all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, dominions, authorities. All things were created by him and for him.
1:17 He is before all things, and all things abide in him.
Gene saith unto me
Berean…..Mike is right, and so are we, you still do not understand the Greek word “en” The actual meaning is “for the sake of” another words God created all thing for his purpose what Jesus was.
for the sake of ….
If we use this expression in the case of Colossians, we have for the end of the verse
Everything was created for the sake of him and for him.
There is an INNUTILE repetition
FOR THE SAJE OF HIM AND FOR HIM
This is all wrong.
I don’t think that’s the right translation…
To me, you use that phrase “for the sake of” wrong…because you and Gene …and so on… Deny the divinity of Christ
You can’t believe that God created all things BY Jesus Christ…
Father’s not happy about it.
Neither Jesus
Review the Holy Scriptures, those of God and beware of false translations or interpretations.

March 21, 2020 at 3:33 pm#850716
Berean
Participant
1:17 He is before all things, and all things abide in him.

JESUS existed before the creation of all things…
It’s clear…
HE WAS WITH GOD AND HE WAS GOD…
AMEN
March 21, 2020 at 3:38 pm#850717
mikeboll64
Blocked
Hi Berean,
I don’t agree with “for the sake of him”. Gene was just saying that he and I agree that Jesus isn’t the Most High God. We also have many disagreements concerning Jesus, such as his preexistence.
But back to the prayer in Acts 4… You say they stood up and prayed to God. Who, in particular, is that God?
March 21, 2020 at 4:08 pm#850718
Berean
Participant
Hi Mike

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.(1 Corinthians 8:6)

The God ALL MIGHTY IS THE FATHER and Jesus is THE ONLY
BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
BEGOTTEN IN ETERNITY PAST
BY THE FATHER GOD.
Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

March 21, 2020 at 4:22 pm#850719
Berean
Participant
According to Micah 5:2
Jesus at his ORIGIN in the eternity spent in God
Yes in God HIMSELF
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life IN HIMSELF;”(John 5:26)
THIS IS ORIGINAL LIFE
[4] In him was life (John 1)
[42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
March 21, 2020 at 4:28 pm#850720
mikeboll64
Blocked
Is your answer that the God they prayed to was the Father AND the Son? I can’t read between the lines and figure out your answer. Just tell me plainly… Who is the God they prayed to? What is his name?
March 21, 2020 at 4:30 pm#850721
Berean
Participant
John 16
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world:
again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

1) I came forth from the Father,
2) and am come into the world:
3) again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
March 21, 2020 at 4:31 pm#850722
Berean
Participant
God bless
March 21, 2020 at 4:34 pm#850723
Berean
Participant
YAHWEH IS THE ONLY ONE GOD
MY GOD (ELOHIM)
March 21, 2020 at 4:47 pm#850724
mikeboll64
Blocked
Okay, so we agree that the God they prayed to was Yahweh. We therefore also agree that Yahweh is the one who created the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them, right?
March 21, 2020 at 9:44 pm#850725
Berean
Participant
Mike
I actually believe that the Father and the Son both of them participated in the creation of the world.
In Genesis 1:26 it appears
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and let him have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Proverbs 8
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23] I was established from eternity, from the beginning, where the earth has been for ever.
When there were no abysses, I was born, when there were no plentiful springs of water.
Before the mountains grew strong, before the hills rose, I was brought into the world:
When the earth had not yet made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest peak of dust in the world.
When he prepared the heavens, I was there, when he placed a compass on the face of the abyss:
When he set the clouds on high, when he fortified the fountains of the abyss:
When he commanded the sea that the waters should not exceed his command, when he laid the foundations of the earth:
I was with him as he was exalted, and did his pleasure every day, rejoicing always before him;
March 21, 2020 at 9:50 pm#850726
Berean
Participant
Segond bible verse 30 say
I was at work with him, and every day I did his delights, always playing in his presence,
March 22, 2020 at 5:07 am#850727
mikeboll64
Blocked
Berean: “I actually believe that the Father and the Son both of them participated in the creation of the world.”
Me too. The Bible doesn’t explicitly say how that went down, but it says enough for us to know that Jesus was “the firstborn of every creature” and “the beginning of the creation by God”.
Proverbs 8 NIV
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth…”
The wording “brought forth”, “formed”, and “given birth” indicates that Yahweh created Jesus as the beginning of his works. Then other scriptures clearly say that Yahweh created all things THROUGH Jesus. We’re not told the specifics, but we know that he who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another, right?
Just like Hebrews 1:1-2 and Revelation 1:1… He who revealed the prophesies is one, and he through whom the prophesies were revealed to us is another.
Acts 2:22 NIV
Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
Again, he who performed the signs and wonders is one, and he through whom the signs and wonders were performed is another. Yahweh also performed signs and wonders through Moses, Aaron, Elijah, etc, right? That very fact makes it clear that these men were not the God who performed those signs and wonders through them. Likewise, Jesus cannot BE the God who spoke, created, and performed miracles THROUGH him.
March 22, 2020 at 6:27 am#850729
GeneBalthrop
Participant
BEREAN…..”unless you be born again” you can’t inter the kingdom of God, Jesus was the first of all creation to be born again, the first to be resurected to life eternal from the grave. He therefore is the first born of all creation.
Non of that has anything to do with him preexisting pryor to his berth on this earth. You are still forcing scriptures to say what infact they are not actually saying.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
March 22, 2020 at 6:50 am#850730
Berean
Participant
I don’t know what you’re talking about?
March 22, 2020 at 10:17 am#850731
Berean
Participant
Gene
You mean Proverbs 8, which has nothing to do with the pre-existence of Jesus?
March 22, 2020 at 10:38 am#850732
Berean
Participant
Gene
You mean Proverbs 8, which has nothing to do with the pre-existence of Jesus?
And Colossians 1
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, ….
This shows that Christ was born directly from the Father and that He is the reflection of the Father and that He is omnipotent.
AMEN
God bless
March 22, 2020 at 11:05 am#850733
mikeboll64
Blocked
Agreed… except for the omnipotent claim. Jesus has nearly unlimited powers – which are given to him by the only truly omnipotent one.
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
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