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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 19,601 through 19,620 (of 25,955 total)
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  • Author
    Posts
  • March 16, 2020 at 7:47 am#850588
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

     

    You don’t tell the biblical truth
    Yet Revelation 19 reveals the mystery of Who is “the Word”
    PLEASE READ

    And I saw the open sky, and here is a white horse; and he who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and with justice he judged and waged war.
    [12] His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a written name, which nobody knew, but himself.
    [13] And he was dressed in a garment soaked in blood, and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD.

    March 16, 2020 at 7:50 am#850589
    Berean
    Participant

     

    And he was dressed in a garment soaked in blood, and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD

     

     

    March 16, 2020 at 9:47 am#850590
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Everyone,

    “The Word” is God’s Holy Spirit

    March 16, 2020 at 9:59 am#850591
    Ed J
    Participant

    “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
    so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” (Heb 11:3)

    “so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear” – what does this imply?

    Answer: Jesus appeared – therefore things could not have come from him

    Conclusion – Jesus is NOT “The Word”

    “the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me” (John 14:10)

    Pretty simple really! Why is it so difficult for the religiously indoctrinated?

    March 16, 2020 at 10:25 am#850593
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Maybe because God’s Holy Spirit can’t ride a horse, or be made flesh? 😉

    March 17, 2020 at 5:17 am#850601
    Berean
    Participant

    God’s Holy Spirit is part of Him

    And “the WORD” was God….

    So The HOLY SPIRIT IS PART OF “THE WORD”

    This is the Power of God (the Son)

    by whom He create the world.

    God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    (Hebrews 1:)

    by whom also he made the worlds;

    By whom  = BY JESUS CHRIST

    THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD

    March 17, 2020 at 2:51 pm#850631
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Your passage tells you what you need to know. God spoke through prophets in the past. The prophets were not the God who spoke through them. Then God spoke through his Son. The Son was not the God who spoke through him.

    True, God created all things THROUGH Jesus, but as Origen (I believe) wrote, “He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing was created is another.”

    The apostles prayer in Acts 4 should settle it though, as they pray TO the one who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them… and they make their prayer THROUGH that one’s holy servant Jesus Christ. And this was after Jesus was back in heaven at the right hand of his and our God. (John 20:17)

    March 19, 2020 at 5:36 am#850662
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    (Heb 1:2)

    Hi Berean,

    He (God) made the worlds by Jesus’ crucifixion.

    “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    If any man have an ear, let him hear.” (Rev 13:8-9)

    For you to believe what you believe, you would also have to believe these verses are wrong:

    “Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I the LORD that maketh all things;
    that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
    That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad;” (Isaiah 44:24-2)

    “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God,
    even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.” (Isaiah 37:16)

    March 19, 2020 at 11:16 am#850673
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Revelation 13:8
    … everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

    This is a much better translation of the Greek text.

    March 19, 2020 at 12:54 pm#850674
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Pretty simple really! Why is it so difficult for the religiously indoctrinated?

    To be fair Edj, if you have a virtue, your name can reflect that.

    He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God

    He is called the Word of God for a reason.

     

    March 19, 2020 at 9:13 pm#850679
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Edj an all

    There is, however, no contradiction in the Word of God. I stayed a long time not understanding but now I believe that when the bible says: “I, the Lord, who do all things; stretching the sky alone; who spreads the earth by myself; ” IT IS THE SOURCE OF LIFE THAT IS INDICATED, IT IS GOD SAY THE FATHER … THE WRITER DOES NOT MENTION THE CHANNEL OF LIFE AS THE APOSTLE PAUL DOES IN 1 CORINTHIANS 8 …. nevertheless for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom all things come and for whom we are, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom all things are and by whom we are . In this verse Paul mentions God the Father as THE SOURCE of all things (OF WHOM) and also JESUS ​​CHRIST as LE CANAL (BY WHOM) by who are all things IN COLLOSSIANS HE’S ONLY CHANNEL (Jesus Christ) Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [16] For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he (Jesus / theWord) is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.  It is a wonderful text.

    God bless

    March 20, 2020 at 3:39 am#850681
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Derean……the word “by” is tripping you up, it should be translated “for the sake of”.  Jesus is the finish product for why God created everything. And we are to come to the full measure and stature of Christ . That’s the purpose for all this physical creation that God “alone and by himself”, has created.  His purpose of the whole creation is summed up in Christ Jesus.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    March 20, 2020 at 3:41 am#850682
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike……thanks, I agree with you on this. GOOD POST.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    March 20, 2020 at 3:55 am#850683
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

    Gene

     

    You:

    Jesus is the finished product of the reason God created everything.

    Me:

    Jesus is not a finished product…

    HE IS THE ONE BY WHOM GOD CREATED THE WORLD…

    THE KING JAMES BIBLE LIKE MOST BIBLES MAKE SENSE…

    Unitarianism has fallen, fallen, fallen…

    March 20, 2020 at 8:55 am#850690
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

     

     

    Mike

    You

    “everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.”

     

    The GOOD VERSION (TEXTUS RECEPTUS)

    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    “kai proskunhsousin autw panteV oi katoikounteV epi thV ghV wn ou gegraptai ta onomata en th biblw thV zwhV tou arniou esfagmenou apo katabolhV kosmou”

    God bless

    March 20, 2020 at 9:02 am#850691
    Berean
    Participant

    This Bible version proves that Jesus existed BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and that he was already “THE LAMB OF GOD SAINTS”

     

     

    March 20, 2020 at 9:03 am#850692
    Berean
    Participant

    This Bible version proves that Jesus existed BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and that he was already “THE LAMB OF GOD SLAIN. “

    March 20, 2020 at 11:54 am#850694
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean, please read the NET draft version towards the bottom of the page, as it just translates the Greek words in the order they were written.

    http://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Rev&chapter=13&verse=8

    Then read footnote 2 at the bottom of the page, and check out the other Revelation verse they list.

    I’d like to hear what you thought of the prayer in Acts 4. Do you understand who they were praying to? Can you see that this one created the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them? Can you further see that the apostles named Jesus, not AS this one, but as the holy servant OF this one? What do you make of that? Who created? Who is the servant of that one?

    March 21, 2020 at 12:35 am#850702
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Hi Mike

     

    What if you see the Son of Man going up where he was before? John 6:62

    I checked the link you posted. It doesn’t change anything for me, Jesus is the Lamb of God “slain, predestined, known, BEFORE the foundation of the world.
    when Adam and Eve Sinned, Jesus was already the Lamb of God and the mediator between God and the first fallen couple.
    He is interposed between God and the sinful couple so that he does not die immediately.
    If Jesus * THE SON OF GOD WASN’T THE LAMB OF GOD WHO AID FOR FISHERMEN, ADAM AND EVE WOULD BE DEAD ON THE SAME DAY.

    IT IS JESUS ​​WHO DRIVED THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL IN THE DESERT AND WHO SPIRITUALLY WATERED IT;

    PAUL LE SAYS
    1COR.10: 4
    And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    About Acts 4:24

    And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

    There is no problem
    It is not the only New Testament text that speaks this way, and not all authors mention how God created the worlds.
    In Revelation 4:11
    We have a similar statement:

    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for your pleasure they are and were created.

    HERE the 24 Elders do not mention By whom God created all things.

    Paul for example in Colossians, mentions that it is BY CHRIST:

    Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    [16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him :
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

     

    AND THE WORD WAS GOD

     

    AMEN

     

    GOD BLESS

    March 21, 2020 at 4:13 am#850706
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Mike is right, and so are we,  you still do not understand the Greek word “en” The actual meaning is “for the sake of” another words God created all thing for his  purpose what Jesus was. That was God the Fathers goal from the very start of his physical creation of this earth and everything in it.  It is his further purpose we all become exactly like Jesus .

    Eph 4:13….Tell we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a “perfect” man, unto the measure of the stature of “the fulness” of Christ.

    There it is as clear as you can get it.

    Berean……here is what Paul said, and what we believe.

    1 Titus 2:5….“for there is “one” God, and “one” mediator between God and men, “the man” Christ Jesus”.

    Peaceand love to you and yours. …………gene

     

     

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