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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 19,481 through 19,500 (of 25,956 total)
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  • May 6, 2016 at 1:29 pm#813668
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    you have many opinions but none work with scriptures why ?is it because they are false ?

    May 6, 2016 at 4:49 pm#813695
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    You must not know Scripture for the Unity of the Spirit is spoken of in Ephesians and in case so is the facts that angels celebrated as God created. There is no mention of your preexistent Christ.

    I see you have admitted that one can carry the title of God’s first born son.

    Seek to continue to humble and perhaps God will have mercy to you and perhaps he will use you to show it to others; such as myself.

    May 7, 2016 at 12:54 am#813698
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    Terrarica,

    Jesus is not a female.

    The logos is the image, which is why John wrote the word is God.

    The image was made Jesus.
    ===================================================

    is that what Paul has written into his letter to the Colossians ?

    I don’t think so ;he specifically talks about the being name Jesus the Christ ; the son of man and son of God ;son = male not female

    now would John say something different than Paul or not be saying the same thing in different words ? i believe so ,for both are men of God ;for those reasons the translators where bias and should have written “a god” rather than “God” for we all know Jesus is a god ,but not his God and father

    May 7, 2016 at 12:57 am#813699
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    Terrarica,

    Your response to Nick is inappropriate though he too could have chosen to be more diplomatic.

    Do you believe there is a Spirit?
    ==========================================================

    there are many spirits ,of which one to you talking about ?

    May 7, 2016 at 1:02 am#813700
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    Terrarica,

    You must not know Scripture for the Unity of the Spirit is spoken of in Ephesians and in case so is the facts that angels celebrated as God created. There is no mention of your preexistent Christ.

    I see you have admitted that one can carry the title of God’s first born son.

    Seek to continue to humble and perhaps God will have mercy to you and perhaps he will use you to show it to others; such as myself.
    ======================================================================

    the holy spirit and the spirit of unity ,or disorder, or ……. are very different of the holy spirit of truth that true believers should seek to line their life with,

    Jn 1:10 He(Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.does this make sense with what you are telling me ?in bold

    Hebrews 1:2
    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Admin.
    May 7, 2016 at 3:00 am#813705
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    TERRICCA. ….WRONG, “HE” (GOD) THE FATHER WAS IN THE WORLD AND THE WORLD AS YOU “PRECIEVES”, HIM NOT.

    Mabe this will help you understan it. FROM Jesus’ mouth himself.

    JOHN 10:38…But if I do, though you believe me not, belive the works: that you may “KNOW”, and “BELIEVE”, that the FATHER (GOD) IS “IN” ME, AND I IN HIM.

    Pierre tell us how and why, you do not “ACTUALLY” believe, GOD THE FATHER WAS NOT “ACTUALLY” “IN” JESUS.

    YOU only see JESUS, BUT FAIL TO SEE GOD WHO WAS “PRESENT” “IN” HIM. IMO

    peace and love to you and. ……..gene

    May 7, 2016 at 3:41 am#813707
    terraricca
    Participant

    Gene

    for pete’s sake read the scriptures opinions does not help at all ,

    God was not in Jesus for God’s being does not climb in people for God is not a demon ,

    the will of God God was in Jesus for he came to do the will of the one that has sent him who his God and father

    May 7, 2016 at 6:52 am#813708
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    You said Colossians but Hebrews 1:3 is where Jesus is figuratively spoke of by the title Son. In that passage it states ‘who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person’ which is still talking about the word that was made flesh.

    It does bring me in mind of the tripartite and bipartite nature of humanity. Scripture use both as teaching tools. I have to look into it when i have time but it is not different that what John or Philo stated.

    May 7, 2016 at 7:55 am#813709
    942767
    Participant

    Hi Pierre:

    You said:

    Gene

    for pete’s sake read the scriptures opinions does not help at all ,

    God was not in Jesus for God’s being does not climb in people for God is not a demon ,

    (If God was not in Jesus, then why does Jesus say that He was dwelling within him?)

    John 14:

    10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    May 7, 2016 at 8:26 am#813710
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    Terrarica,

    You said Colossians but Hebrews 1:3 is where Jesus is figuratively spoke of by the title Son. In that passage it states ‘who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person’ which is still talking about the word that was made flesh.

    It does bring me in mind of the tripartite and bipartite nature of humanity. Scripture use both as teaching tools. I have to look into it when i have time but it is not different that what John or Philo stated.
    ======================================================

    I have told you many times ;I follow the scriptures with out adding or taking away ;you do both ,

    so either you going to be deceived or start to believe the scriptures ;up to you

    May 7, 2016 at 8:37 am#813711
    terraricca
    Participant

    Hi Marty

    has been a while how are you ?
    =================================
    John 14:

    10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    =======================================

    we cannot have it both ways either Jesus his the father and his own God ,or Jesus his the only son of God his father ;

    and we all know God’s being does not dwell in anyone ;but his spirit (his will) is ;

    and yes Jesus performed all what his father said and ask of him ;scriptures are very clear on that one ,

    what also scriptures says clearly is that ALL THINGS ARE DONE THROUGH JESUS HIS SON ;

    tell me why would it be now different in your scripture ?

    just to mention ;

    “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
    Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
    Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
    Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
    Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

    it is obvious to understand that no one can be God nor join him as a being for if so he would no longer be himself ;but this is said that all can join God’s will and so be united with him in the spirit of truth according to his will

    we Have to understand that God is a spirit being and has his own soul and will ,and so is the son Jesus and so are the angels being and all humans

    May 7, 2016 at 8:45 am#813712
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    I am sorry as my explanations may have become too esoteric for you. Jesus that he is in God and God is in him. It is equivalent saying the Word that comes out of God’s mouth is in me and I am in the word. Yet another way is for him to say “the Spirit is in me and I am in the Spirit”.

    When Scripture says the Son it can be speaking of 1) Jesus, 2) the word, or 3) the Spirit as they are currently united. Jesus now currently resides in the position that was reserved for him. That position is the position the word previously occupied and still does. There will come a time when Jesus steps down from it just as he ascended to it.

    The Scripture teaches us that Jesus did not have the full powers of the word of God until after he was resurrected but he did have some as soon as he came into the world for God instructed the angels to pay homage to him. Those last are details John treats as irrelevant in John 1 but I mentioned them because Scripture does.

    The “was made” in John 1 is sometimes translated as married and perhaps that is a better way the idea the the word and Jesus were unified. English uses “was made’ and “became” similarly in the statement “the two became one”. In speaking of this between God’s word and Jesus John place the word of God in the dominate position and the human in the subservient position.

    I am trying to explain it but Jesus worded it best by claiming the word of God is in him and he is in the word of God.

    In conclusion Jesus is not the word of God but the word of God is in him and he is in the word of God.

    May 7, 2016 at 8:55 am#813714
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin
    I am sorry as my explanations may have become too esoteric for you.
    ============================================
    are you serious ? I study this so deep ,that I have concluded the esoteric = disneyland

    May 7, 2016 at 9:03 am#813715
    942767
    Participant

    Hi Pierre:

    I am OK thanks for asking, and I hope that you and your family are doing well.

    Pierre, I don’t quite understand what you are saying by your reply.  God dwells in all Believers by His Spirit.  His throne is in heaven, but He can be everywhere by His Spirit.

    The Logos is that which God has spoken, and the scriptures state:

    Hebrews 1King James Version (KJV)

    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Jesus states the following in John 12:

    48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

    50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

     

    May 7, 2016 at 9:15 am#813716
    terraricca
    Participant

    Hi Marty

    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    did God came down from heaven and talk to man ?NO ,his angels did for he sent them ,now does this not mean it is God that talk to man ? I don’t think so ,the envoy is sent by God to say what God has to say and yes in this way God spoke to men .

    and yes God sent his son down from heaven to be with us and show us the way to salvation by putting his own life to death for the sake of us all who will believe in him ,

    all this does not mean that a part of God beside his will comes to be in us

    May 7, 2016 at 10:05 am#813720
    942767
    Participant

    Hi Pierre:

    You say:

    did God came down from heaven and talk to man ?NO ,his angels did for he sent them ,now does this not mean it is God that talk to man ? I don’t think so ,the envoy is sent by God to say what God has to say and yes in this way God spoke to men .

    (If you do not believe the scriptures, then discussing this with you is futility.)

    2 Co 5:

    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    May 7, 2016 at 10:36 am#813721
    terraricca
    Participant

    Hi Marty

    I do believe the scriptures to the fullest of my soul ;

    but let understand what scriptures says and don’t say;

    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

    what would this mean in truth ? 1) ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD; I don’t have a single argument against this view ,for whatever anyone can do it will always be God’s will that be at the end done ;

    2)who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ; again I have no problem with this claim at all ; but what that mean ? it just means that by the means of his son Jesus ,God as made arrangements to reconcile /bring back to him all men by the sacrifice of his son’s human life ,

    3) and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; and yes this is the deed that counts ,the deed that we should pursue by all our means in truth of God’s word ,

    this work is our part ,to participate with God and his son into the marvelous work to show our love not only to our fellow man but to our God and creator ,our father

    for those reason if we participate in the work of God ;we can say that God is in deed in us ,for we do the work of God ,but it does not mean that a part of God’s being is in us ,in the same way if we looking to accomplish God’s will it is no longer us in us but God in us ,meaning the will of God is in us

    1CO 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
    EPH 1:23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

    May 7, 2016 at 11:05 am#813722
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    You seem not to understand this passage, or more specifically how these parties are unified.

    Ephesians 4:1-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Every party within this group whether it be the lowest or the highest have one key thing in common and that is they all walk according to the same Spirit.

    May 7, 2016 at 11:08 am#813723
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    To answer what Spirit is in the unity of the Spirit I will ask the question below. Once you answer is then you know what “Spirit” means in the unity.

    Proverbs 16:19Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    19
    Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly,
    than to divide the spoil with the proud.

    What does spirit mean in this passage?

    May 7, 2016 at 12:21 pm#813724
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    better be with the humble ones in the truth of God ,than with the world ones, proud in there wickedness

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