Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’. (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

This topic has 25,955 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 6 days, 11 hours ago by Keith.

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April 28, 2016 at 7:02 pm#812893
kerwin
Participant
Terrarica,
“the things of the earth” the words are correct but some interpret them to be the physical, mental, or like of the earth when most times it is being stated in a spiritual context.
“the things of the earth” often means the desires of the flesh and the deeds thereof.
A natural human is a human with the mind on the satisfying the things, desires, of this world and not on satisfying the things, desires, of God.
A Spiritual human is therefore a godly minded human or simply a godly human.
In that sense Paul was a godly even why he was persecuting Christians because his mind was a slave to the Law but his humanity was a slave to sin, in short a pitiful wretch. It is that intellect of the soul(?) that finally brought and allowed God to save him through Jesus Christ. (Romans 7)
I use Paul to reveal that even a man that had not yet been conceived of the Spirit of God may in some way be a Spiritual man. One conceived of the Spirit is even more so a Spiritual human.
April 28, 2016 at 8:19 pm#812896
Ed J
Participant
Hi all apostate
the day you can read the scriptures the way it was written we will talk ,you just don’t like the truth in scriptures you have to make your own version of it ,
I cannot do that
John 1;1 should be “a god” (Post #8212547)
April 29, 2016 at 12:43 am#812904
terraricca
Participant
Kerwin
It is that intellect of the soul(?) that finally brought and allowed God to save him through Jesus Christ. (Romans 7)
============================================================================
all you say is true ,but you forgot one thing in which you are wrong (the above )
it was Paul love for the truth of God that saved him ,for he as been deceived by those that teached him ,the quality to love truth has to be in you for the word of truth of God to have any will for you ,
April 29, 2016 at 12:49 am#812905
terraricca
Participant
ED
John 1;1 should be “a god”
============================================
it as to be “a god”
1) the one with God is another than the one he his with,
2) scriptures tells that the son comes from heaven
3)Jesus his the “WORD ” OF GOD HIS FATHER
4) Jesus his the only image of God his father ;and the first creation of God
5) all things have been created through him and for him
could be more ,
the reason why you try to make your denil a truth is because you rejecting the apostles teachings for your own ,
so like Nick you are an apostate
April 29, 2016 at 1:58 am#812911
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Nick…..The spirit “of” your mind, is what makes up the thinking comming “from” your mind, they are connected and act as one. “Let this “mind” be “in” you that was “in” Christ JESUS our lord”. And again “We are being “transformed” by the “renewing” of our minds”. We are told. The spirit is what controls and makes up the mind , therefore as JESUS SAID OF THEMAN WHO RECIEVED UNCLEAN SPIRITS THAT WERE SEVEN TIMESWORSE THEWHATHE FIRST HAD, “THE LAST “STATE” OF THAT MAN WAS WORSE THEN THE FIRST STATE”. A STATE THERE IS REFERENCI G HIS MEANTAL STATE. IMO
I really don’t think you can seperate the mimd from the spirit, we also have scriptures that say if God were to withdraw his spirit everything would die. ALL physical creation that has life “in” it is MAINTAINED BY that SPIRIT “IN” IT. GOD gives all his physical creation spirit, or better yet he gives the spirit a “body” just as it pleases him. Spirit causes everthing in creation to act as it does all animals including human being. The physical matter with spirit “in” it is what a “living” soul is. IMO
I DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING CAN ACTUALLY LIVE WITHOUT SPIRIT IN IT, BOTH NOW AND IN THE FUTURE. BECAUSE TO ME, SPIRIT IS WHAT LIFE, IT SELF IS. ALL THINGS ACT OUT, ACCORDING TO THE SPIRITS WORKING IN THEM.
JUST THE WAY I SEE IT NICK.
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
April 29, 2016 at 2:40 am#812912
kerwin
Participant
Terrarica,
all you say is true ,but you forgot one thing in which you are wrong (the above )
it was Paul love for the truth of God that saved him ,for he as been deceived by those that teached him ,the quality to love truth has to be in you for the word of truth of God to have any will for you ,
Jesus stated God’s worshipers would worship him in spirit and truth and Paul desired to do that but did not have the Spirit to walk by.
In addition God stated that he would write the Law in the minds and on the hearts of those that entered the new covenant so Paul hungered and thirsted for that to happen and then it did when he learned to walk according to the Spirit.
April 29, 2016 at 3:04 am#812913
kerwin
Participant
Terrarica,
I remember Mike arguing it meant a god but Philo of Alexandria, a Jew who spoke Koine Greek fluently and lived during the time of Jesus, tells his hearers that God without “the” meant the qualities of God. Mike is using a manuscript in a foreign language that was centuries later and unlike Philo has a reason to be biased. Philo’s interpretation works in English as well. The thing is “a god” actually means the same thing in English as well. So it essentially a meaningless argument over words unless you want to cheery pick a newer definition to support your own doctrine.
Ed is a fairly strict Av of the KJ adherent so unless you can convince him its wording is wrong you have no credibility as far as he is concerned. Your argument does not bear weight with me because it is vain and the Christ is foretold to be a human being.
Jesus asked how is the Christ the chief son of David and the answer is in accordance to his humanity. So why does David call him “my Lord” and the answer is that Jesus is the chief son of God according to his conception through the Spirit.
You are following a strange teaching that arose soon after the death of Christ and is addressed in the book of Hebrews. Since you do not believe it you will believe me when I say the same thing.
April 29, 2016 at 3:22 am#812915
terraricca
Participant
Kerwin
I study this very carefully
just answer my five points and tell me if they are wrong for if not “a god” is the very truth ;
if you can prove my five points wrong then you are right it should be “God ”
so do tell me with scriptures prove not your opinion
- This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Admin.
April 29, 2016 at 3:43 am#812919
Ed J
Participant
so like Nick you are an apostate
apostate:
abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. …[b](Link)[/b]
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.
April 29, 2016 at 3:45 am#812920
kerwin
Participant
Terrrarica,
1) the one with God is another than the one he his with,
Your point is speculative because Scripture does not mention any creature existing with God before he created the heavens and the earth.
Instead Scripture states the word goes forth from God’s mouth and will not return to be with him void. (Isaiah 55:11) Poetic but Scripture is often poetic but don’t let that confuse you.
Scripture does state the word was with God in the beginning because it did not come of his mouth until he created the first thing that was created and that thing was created by it. The word is God where “is” means “has the qualities”. For example God us Love.
April 29, 2016 at 3:55 am#812921
kerwin
Participant
Terraricca,
2) scriptures tells that the son comes from heaven
It also teaches us that a human must be “born again” but that each of us must reenter our mother’s wombs to be born again as it is speaking of being born from above and not about being born from a womb.
FYI: The Koine Greek word translated again means both “anew” and “above”. As you see some of the meaning is lost in translation.
April 29, 2016 at 4:03 am#812922
kerwin
Participant
Terrarica,
3)Jesus his the “WORD ” OF GOD HIS FATHER
John actually states the word took on the qualities of humanity which means the word is Jesus. He is definitely emphasizing the word that comes out of God’s mouth over Jesus. That emphasis may continue in Revelations 19 or it may not. It is the same as emphasizing the Spiritual over the physical in cases such as stating “you must be born again-from-above.”
April 29, 2016 at 4:59 am#812923
terraricca
Participant
Kerwin
why are you denying the scriptures and only turning to a part of the scriptures and ignoring the others
what about ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”
Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.
could you combine all those scriptures and tell me of whom they talking ?
April 29, 2016 at 7:20 am#812925
NickHassan
Participant
Hi GB,
Your opinions do not match the veracity of scripture and muddy the water for others.
April 29, 2016 at 7:24 am#812926
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Paul did not have the Spirit to walk by?
Then who did the miracles and raised the dead and spoke the words you cling to?
April 29, 2016 at 1:25 pm#812961
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
I am speaking of Paul’ state before he received the Spirit; a time when his mind warred with his flesh.
April 29, 2016 at 1:35 pm#812962
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Ok
With all your mysticism it gets confusing.
April 29, 2016 at 4:48 pm#812967
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Do you think Rom 7 relates to this time?
If so why and if not where does he speak of it?
April 30, 2016 at 3:45 am#812995
terraricca
Participant
Kerwin
yeah that is what i was expecting ? silense …………………………………………..
April 30, 2016 at 8:34 am#813001
NickHassan
Participant
Hi,
The Word was God, not Jesus.
Now the word has been made flesh as Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
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