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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

  • This topic has 25,955 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by Keith.
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  • April 22, 2016 at 5:42 pm#812278
    terraricca
    Participant

    Nick

    no it does not you have been deceived ,but your ego now stands in the way to accept it ,that is your battle not mine ,you will not come to the truth of God unless you humble yourself before God not me ,

    April 22, 2016 at 6:36 pm#812281
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t,

    Would judge the servant of another?

    Show some maturity.

    April 23, 2016 at 1:17 am#812296
    terraricca
    Participant

    Nick

    Show some maturity. yes you should but you do not have any .this is why you prove that your knowledge is of man not of God ,and I do not judge the servants of the god of this world ,

    April 23, 2016 at 7:42 am#812303
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Terraricca. …Stop and think what you are going to say before you say or write it, your understanding is not of the truth at this time, your holding on to old traditions you have long ago learned from false RELIGIOUS teachers . Truth BEGINS with understanding who JESUS REALLY IS, If you have moved him away from your own “human idenity”, as a “ordinary” human being, you haven’t even started to understanding the truth yet. May GOD help you to relate with Jesus as a human brother , whom GOD THE FATHER EXAULTED AND GLORIFIED, BY giving him his anointing SPIRIT, and was “IN” HIM DOING THE WORKS.

    You believe GOD DID EVERYTHING THROUGH JESUS, BUT THE FACT IS JESUS WAS DOING WHAT HE DID THROUGH THE ANOINTING SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD, GOD WAS “IN” JESUS BY AN ANOINTING SPIRIT, IN HIM, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS YOU PREACH.

    It’s all a work of God even in his SAINT’S by his SPIRIT, EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, WHICH GIVES US THE COGNESITY TO RECONIZE THE TRUTH FROM ERROR. FOR THE SHEEP OF GOD KNOW THE SOUND OF THE TRUE SHEPHERD AND WILL NOT FOLLOW A FALSE SHEPPARD. NONE OF US WHO HAVE the Spirit of truth, need anyone to teach us anything, for the Spirit “itself” teaches us “all” things. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    April 23, 2016 at 8:26 am#812305
    terraricca
    Participant

    Gene

    Terraricca. …Stop and think what you are going to say before you say or write it, your understanding is not of the truth at this time, your holding on to old traditions you have long ago learned from false RELIGIOUS teachers . Truth BEGINS with understanding who JESUS REALLY IS, If you have moved him away from your own “human idenity”, as a “ordinary” human being, you haven’t even started to understanding the truth yet. May GOD help you to relate with Jesus as a human brother , whom GOD THE FATHER EXAULTED AND GLORIFIED, BY giving him his anointing SPIRIT, and was “IN” HIM DOING THE WORKS.

    You believe GOD DID EVERYTHING THROUGH JESUS, BUT THE FACT IS JESUS WAS DOING WHAT HE DID THROUGH THE ANOINTING SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD, GOD WAS “IN” JESUS BY AN ANOINTING SPIRIT, IN HIM, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS YOU PREACH.

    It’s all a work of God even in his SAINT’S by his SPIRIT, EVEN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, WHICH GIVES US THE COGNESITY TO RECONIZE THE TRUTH FROM ERROR. FOR THE SHEEP OF GOD KNOW THE SOUND OF THE TRUE SHEPHERD AND WILL NOT FOLLOW A FALSE SHEPPARD. NONE OF US WHO HAVE the Spirit of truth, need anyone to teach us anything, for the Spirit “itself” teaches us “all” things. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    ==============================================================================================================

    My heart is in pain because you cannot see what scriptures tells you;

    1)Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another
    or give to God a ransom for him—
    Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly,
    no payment is ever enough—
    Ps 49:9 that he should live on forever
    and not see decay.

    this scripture says that no man can save or redeem himself no matter what he has or does ,no descendant from Adam can produce what it takes for God ,

    so God himself provided the sacrifice ;

    PS 89:21 With whom My hand will be established;
    My arm also will strengthen him.
    ISA 51:5 “My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth,
    And My arms will judge the peoples;
    The coastlands will wait for Me,
    And for My arm they will wait expectantly.

    Ps 89:2 I will declare that your love stands firm forever,
    that you established your faithfulness in heaven itself.

    Ps 89:3 You said, “I have made a covenant with my chosen one,
    I have sworn to David my servant,
    Ps 89:4 ‘I will establish your line forever
    and make your throne firm through all generations.’ ”

    Selah

    Ps 89:5 The heavens praise your wonders, O LORD,
    your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.
    Ps 89:6 For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD?
    Who is like the LORD among the heavenly beings?

    Ps 89:13 Your arm is endued with power;
    your hand is strong, your right hand exalted.

    Ps 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;
    love and faithfulness go before you.
    Ps 89:15 Blessed are those who have learned to acclaim you,
    who walk in the light of your presence, O LORD.
    Ps 89:16 They rejoice in your name all day long;
    they exult in your righteousness.

    Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature/form God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!
    Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    those are not words that are said about a idea/spirit but words that are said about someone well alive and serving God one that is free of sin ,and even as he came down clothed as a man resisted the devil temptation and voluntary give up his life for our sake ,and when done all these things went back were he came from Heaven,

    and it is in the same way that we have to walk to be saved , obedient in all good works /deeds remain faithful until the end ,and above all LOVE GOD with all our soul

    April 23, 2016 at 9:44 am#812310
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,

    Those who have the Spirit recognise the Spirit.

    That is how it works.

     

    Not by might, nor by power but by My Spirit

    April 23, 2016 at 10:22 am#812313
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    1)Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another
    or give to God a ransom for him—
    Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly,
    no payment is ever enough—
    Ps 49:9 that he should live on forever
    and not see decay.

    Poor choice of evidence as translations vary on the letter of the passage and even this passage has context that opposes your interpretation.

    Here is an alternative translation and there are other alternatives.

    Psalm 49:6-9New King James Version (NKJV)

    6
    Those who trust in their wealth
    And boast in the multitude of their riches,
    7
    None of them can by any means redeem his brother,
    Nor give to God a ransom for him—
    8
    For the redemption of their souls is costly,
    And it shall cease forever—
    9
    That he should continue to live eternally,
    And not see the Pit.

    The translators of the various translations have trouble translating the passage and and so decide on some arbitrary translation because they would not be able to finish their translation if they did not. In addition there personal doctrine or the doctrine of the majority may have influenced them.

    In short you need at least other reliable witness to verify the version you chose and preferably two.

    It is irrelevant to the point since Jesus stated “not my will but thine”.

    John 14:10New King James Version (NKJV)

    10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

    1 1 Timothy 2:5-7New King James Version (NKJV)

    5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ[a] and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

    Do you believe the man Jesus Christ gave himself a ransom for all?

    April 23, 2016 at 11:07 am#812317
    terraricca
    Participant

    Nick
    Hi T,

    Those who have the Spirit recognise the Spirit.

    That is how it works.
    ============================================================
    you don’t even know what that means

    April 23, 2016 at 11:11 am#812318
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    Poor choice of evidence as translations vary on the letter of the passage and even this passage has context that opposes your interpretation.

    Here is an alternative translation and there are other alternatives.

    Psalm 49:6-9New King James Version (NKJV)
    6
    Those who trust in their wealth
    And boast in the multitude of their riches,
    7
    None of them can by any means redeem his brother,
    Nor give to God a ransom for him—
    8
    For the redemption of their souls is costly,
    And it shall cease forever—
    9
    That he should continue to live eternally,
    And not see the Pit.

    ==============================================================

    you seem to have the same problem Nick has ,you do not believe the scriptures it does not matter which version you using ,

    the scriptures have been written for those that believe in it not the others and it looks you are part of the others ,think about

    April 23, 2016 at 11:18 am#812319
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin
    Do you believe the man Jesus Christ gave himself a ransom for all?
    ==============================================================================

    I do believe that the son of God called “THE WORD” was send by his father and God to be covered by flesh and so became known as Jesus the Christ ,and also known as “THE SON OF GOD” AND AS “THE SON OF MAN ” he fulfilled the law and live according to it ,give up his life for our sins so that we may seek him and his father and so receive everlasting life and some called to be with him were he is in heaven ,

    why Jesus /the WORD was sent for all men fall short of the glory of God and none would ever be a pure spotless sacrifice of redemption ,

    now if you see something that scriptures does not support please show me in scriptures ,for I don’t care for opinions I have a bag of them myself ,

    April 23, 2016 at 2:09 pm#812335
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t,

    The Word was not a man but the Spirit of the Son.

    That word was made flesh at the Jordan.

    April 23, 2016 at 2:21 pm#812339
    terraricca
    Participant

    Nick

    well the scriptures says otherwise , you may think differently but that is your decision not mine ,

    you got the scriptures upside down ,

    April 23, 2016 at 2:58 pm#812348
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t,

    Yes you have your fixed ideas.

    April 23, 2016 at 4:33 pm#812349
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    My question was.

    Do you believe the man Jesus Christ gave himself a ransom for all?

    It sounded like you are saying no even though you know Scripture states that it was it was human being Jesus Christ who gave himself as a ransom for all. I hope I misunderstood you because if you are contradicting a passage of Scripture that the vast majority of translators agree on and picking of one version of one that they have trouble then it certainly would appear were being dishonest. There is 1 exception to 1 Timothy 2:5 and the is the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. It uses the title Son of Man instead of the word man.

    Of course I am probably misunderstanding you so could you please give me a yes or no answer. Thank you.

    April 23, 2016 at 4:43 pm#812350
    kerwin
    Participant

    terrarica,

    why Jesus /the WORD was sent for all men fall short of the glory of God and none would ever be a pure spotless sacrifice of redemption ,

    These words sound like you disagree with prophecy for it is written “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds” (Jeremiah 31:33) and “I will put my laws on their hearts and I will inscribe them on their minds”. (Hebrews 8:10 and 10:16)

    Jesus is the first human that God put the word in his heart and inscribed it on his mind. That is why we are instructed to follow him.

    April 23, 2016 at 4:53 pm#812352
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    please show me a scripture that make me a liar or shows my lack of knowledge in scriptures ?i cannot argue with your opinions unless i answer with mine ,but then were would we going

    read what you are telling me ? and see if you can put a scripture to support your view ,you make this all up ,it is even against God’s own words

    April 23, 2016 at 4:55 pm#812353
    terraricca
    Participant

    Nick

    you are lost in your own reading of the scriptures do you know why
    ?

    April 23, 2016 at 5:46 pm#812359
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t,

    So other folk are lost.

    Interesting.

    April 23, 2016 at 6:15 pm#812361
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    1 Timothy 2:5-7 if you answered my question with a no. After I phrased my question using words from 1 Timothy 2:5-7 and quoted them to let you know. I did make a few minor changes for the sake of proper English. So essentially if you answer no then you would be disagreeing with the words Paul wrote according to the NKJV.

    Of course you have not answered my question with a yes or no.

    Jeremiah 31:33 disagrees with you because God stated he would put his word in the hearts and write it on the minds of his people. Jesus was made of a worm and made under the Law and so is one of God’ people. To be exact he is a member of the tribe of Judah.

    We are instructed to follow him and so get the word put into our hearts and written on our mind just as he did before us.

    Matthew 16:24New King James Version (NKJV)

    24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

    Jesus overcame and teaches is that his overcoming of it encourages us to overcome it.

    John 16:33New King James Version (NKJV)

    33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will[a] have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
    Footnotes:

    John 16:33 NU-Text and M-Text omit will.

    The passages are a multitude.

    April 24, 2016 at 2:33 am#812367
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    I have answer in what the scriptures are saying not what you think it should be ;and what I shown you cannot be undone for Jesus came from heaven ,he says it ,John the baptist says it ,John the apostle says it and Paul says it ,who you think I going to believe ? you ? not a chance ;the scriptures yes all of the time ,

    in your explanation you fail to understand many things to many things ,

    you also twist your reasoning on the verses you quoting

    you do not see things the way God want you to see it ,for after all it is his written word not ours

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