Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’. (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

This topic has 25,944 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 6 hours, 20 minutes ago by Keith.

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November 4, 2024 at 4:34 am#946963
Berean
Participant
@Keith
The inheritance of the (new) earth for the elect will be after the millennium, not before. At the return of Christ, there will be the millennium which will be a period of judgment of the wicked by Christ and certain saints, and this will take place in Heaven.
see more here
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http://www.cyberspaceministry.org/Lessons/Truth/Lesson25/eng-s25.html
November 5, 2024 at 4:28 am#946964
GeneBalthrop
Participant
DT, you said…….You claim to be “filled” with the “spirit”, do you still sin? If so, how; doesn’t the spirit lead you like it lead the Jesus?
DT, show me where I ever said I was “filled” , with Holy Spirit. I said I have the Holy Spirit, (the spirit of truth) Abiding in me, that is how I know you are not of the truth , in rejecting Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, and the whole New Testament,
I am not perfect yet, but the spirit of God that abides in me, is working for that goal, just as it says, ” for he (God) works in us, both to Will, (cause us to desire) and do of his (God’s) good pleasure’.
Jesus was right, if we “lust” after a woman, we are commuting adulatory with her in our hearts, so you are guilty of committing the act , (in your heart)> if you do it in your heart you will do it . …..“so a man thinks, so he is”. That is also written. God judges not only our actions but also our hearts, as in the case of Cain, God know before Cain committed the act , what Cain would do. Think about that “O” WISE ONE.
Peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene

November 5, 2024 at 6:21 am#946965
DesireTruth
Participant
@Proclaimer,
Proclaimer wrote:
I finally realize the difference between christianity and what is written in the Tanakh concerning sin; christianity believes sin is a condition or an attribute/characteristic of humanity, consider themselves dirty rags, and thus need a “redeemer” to be forgiven; the Tanakh teaches sin is an action and you have a choice, obey G-d or not.
Sin is wrongdoing.
Sin is disobedience to G-d’s commands
The LAW is the knowledge of wrongdoing.
The law was 613 commands given to all of Israel by G-d and are how the people where to worship G-d and how they where to treat and respect their fellow man. To say it was to point out or give “knowledge” of wrongdoing is a Pauline lie, because it was more of a “code”, how one was to live. You really should look them up, because they aren’t the “burden” Paul tells you they are; they aren’t what you have been told they are. In fact, Moses before he died said they where easy to follow. Even John in his epistle said the same.
But what about those WITHOUT the law.
None are without G-d’s “law.” Explain how Noah was righteous before G-d, what did he do? Explain Abraham, the father of Israel, who had no “written law” to follow, was a friend of God? Job was a righteous man before G-d. Enoch walked faithfully with G-d and never saw death. There was something they followed, what was it? Hint…it wasn’t the Mosaic Law.
The law is written is our HEARTS.
Read the comment before; this is how the aforementioned people where able to follow after G-d. It’s always been written on our hearts; everyone knows the difference between good and evil (thanks to Adam and Eve) and it’s the decision one makes when presented a choice.
The Old Testament took us to the knowledge that we are sinners.
Another Pauline lie, the Tanakh didn’t bring one to the “knowledge we are sinners.” The Tanakh is broken into three parts: Torah, Prophets, and Writings; the Torah is the “law” you hate and are burdened by, but do recommend reading it, the prophets speak mostly of judgment and redemption of Israel, and the writings primarily give a historical account of the nation of Israel but also include “poetry” and “wisdom.”
The New Testament is about grace, thus provides the solution to the problem.
Beg to differ with this statement, G-d extended A LOT of “grace” AND “mercy” to the Israelite’s throughout the Tanakh…may want to give it a read again.
@DesireTruth, what you are proposing is that God should have left humanity in sin with no way out.
Except HE didn’t; HE told mankind they have control over sin (Gen 4:7), do you also reject G-d’s words? HE also said to repent, turn from your sin, and HE’LL remember it no more…sounds like a plan to me or do you prefer the words of Paul instead?
God showed us that he is the Judge.
Agree, G-d gives perfect justice to all.
Now he shows us that he is the Father of grace.
HE has always been, from creation, the Father of grace and mercy and justice and most importantly, LOVE.
To appreciate something truly, it needs to be hard earned.
Not sure what you mean here and how this would applied to G-d.
Otherwise, your attitude is one of indifference. Easy come easy go.
There is nothing “indifferent” in my attitude nor in what I’m posting, I’m rather passionate about what I’m writing, which has been met with “indifference” and anger. How dare I verify what is written and not blindly accept what I’m told! Shame on me…
November 5, 2024 at 9:19 am#946966
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
DT, show me where I ever said I was “filled” , with Holy Spirit. I said I have the Holy Spirit, (the spirit of truth) Abiding in me, that is how I know you are not of the truth , in rejecting Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, and the whole New Testament,
Of everything I have written in the last several months, what have you verified or proven wrong?
Of course I reject the Jesus as the true Messiah, he fulfilled being Jewish; what about the rest the Messiah was to do.
And Paul…what can I say? Need to read Acts 1:21-26 and tell me Paul is an Apostle. More like an impostor. The Jesus even says there are only 12 Apostles and Paul made himself the 13th.
Again, can the NT be the inspired word of G-d if one lie is found within its pages? How many lies can there be and still be called “inspired”? Explain why most here don’t even agree with what’s written within this “inspired” book.
I am not perfect yet, but the spirit of God that abides in me, is working for that goal, just as it says, ” for he (God) works in us, both to Will, (cause us to desire) and do of his (God’s) good pleasure’.
Is G-d looking for perfection? Please cite the passage where G-d says HE expects perfection from mankind. This is another lie of Paul’s.
Jesus was right, if we “lust” after a woman, we are commuting adulatory with her in our hearts, so you are guilty of committing the act , (in your heart)> if you do it in your heart you will do it . …..”so a man thinks, so he is”. That is also written.
So if one lust after a woman they have committed the act of adultery (in their heart) even though the act was never committed?!?! Then to say if you do it in your heart to will actually do it?!?!? Do the men you associate with not have self control and proceeded to have an adulterous relationship with said woman. Think it may be time to find new friends. You quote Prov 23:7 as your proof, you may want to include verse 6 with it for context (eyes roll).
God judges not only our actions but also our hearts, as in the case of Cain, God know before Cain committed the act , what Cain would do.
You have a verse from the Tanakh where it says G-d judges our heart or does G-d look at the heart and know the desires of man? Of course G-d knew what Cain would do; the biggest take away with G-d’s conversation with Cain is the fact G-d told him he had power over sin. Why won’t you address this conflict of your Pauline teachings?
November 5, 2024 at 10:12 am#946967
Keith
Participant
The ruling Throne is in heaven, but no where does it say the resurrected are in heaven. Only the ones in the first resurrection=the little flock are in heaven. The great crowd is not promised heaven anywhere in the bible.
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