Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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June 26, 2023 at 9:39 am#943887
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
NOW if God says there are not any God besides him and he does not know “ANY” , THEN THAT MAKES HIM
“THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD,
even a simpleton can understand that.
NO Gene,
THERE WAS ONLY ONE WAY TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING
“TRUE” on this planet in the OT
NEVER MIND
THE “ONLY” TRUE!
AND NOT JUST BY SAYING SO! Read:
John 8:17 And in your law it is written,
that the testimony of two men is true.
WHERE DID THE “FATHER” NOT JUST GOD, PROVE IN THE OT. THAT HE
IS THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD!
NOW I WAS CLEAR ENOUGH IN SIMPLE PLAIN ENGLISH!
DON’T BE STUBBORN!
READ AGAIN:

GOD THE FATHER IS FOR SURE
THE TRUTH!
BUT WHY DON’T WE READ IN FULL CLARITY IN THE OT.,
THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?
SHALL WE CONCLUDE THEN THAT THE FATHER IS NOT THE ONLY TRUE GOD, SINCE YOU SAID THAT WHATEVER IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE OT
IT WOULD BE A LIE.
ANSWER IS IT A LIE THEN THAT THE FATHER SPECIFICALLY IN FULL CLARITY IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, SINCE
IT IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE OT.
YES OR NO PLEASE!
OR IF YOU ACCEPT THAT THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, EVEN IF NOT IN FULL CLARITY MENTIONED AS SUCH IN THE OT,
WITH THE SAME ARGUMENT, SHALL WE ACCEPT THAT JESUS IS
THE ONLY TRUE
GODMAN?
EVEN IF IT IS NOT MENTIONED AS SUCH IN THE SCRIPTURE?
NOW USING YOUR FAMOUS OPINION
HOW CAN YOU DETERMINE THAT
SOMETHING IS TRUE ON THIS PLANET?
I AM WAITING PLEASE.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
June 27, 2023 at 1:40 am#943889
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel……what do you think the words, “there is “NO” God besides me”. Means?, Are you so ignorant you can’t even put that together?, like I said even a simpleton can put that together. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel…….gene
June 27, 2023 at 6:18 am#943890
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
Sorry, have been extremely busy and haven’t had time to respond.
Agreed, Israel didn’t suffer for the “sins” of other nations, they suffered because they where disobedient to God, did their own thing, and were judged accordingly. However the words must be put into perspective of what is happening starting in Isa 52. Israel is being restored, God is calling his chosen people back to Jerusalem from the ends of the earth, out of their oppression. When reading 53 the nations of the world are shocked by the restoration of Israel, because they felt Israel was worthless and as you read verses 2,3 the nations said the Israelite’s where the lowest form of human life and they treated them as much. It is from the nations perspective who felt they were doing the will of God by punishing the Israelite’s and it’s the nations who say Israel’s punishment was because of their transgressions, not Israel making this claim.
You asked about establishing an “intended timeline”; from Isaiah’s words, is it possible to suppose a timeline? I think this would depend on whether or not you believe it’s speaking of Israel or of Jesus. The previous chapter 52 speaks of a restoration of Israel; have God’s people returned from the ends of the earth as is being described? In 53, have the nations been “shocked” by Israel’s restoration? Has Israel turned back to God? If I where to guess…not yet. So from this perspective this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Now to make the claim it’s referencing Jesus; one has to explain who the “our” is in 53:1 because the “our” is also the “we”, “our”, and “my” used through verse 8. The one speaking in verse one is who is taking responsibility for all this bad being described. If we listen to the church and believe it’s speaking of Jesus, then the “our” is mankind; now I am curious of what the message is that couldn’t be believed. Are you confused yet?
You quote “shall” from verse 2; PLEASE take your KJ Bible and throw it in the garbage. The translators of the King James modified the tenses of words, thereby corrupting the text and changing the original meaning. The word “vai Ya‘al” is the past tense word “grew.” Look at multiple translations and this IS confirmed. KJ is one of a handful that uses “shall”, placing the context of the verse into the future. Everyone lauds over the KJ version and elevates it as the “standard” of all “bibles”, but the translators changed the tenses of words to make a narrative work; and by changing it, have corrupted it. It’s becoming a book I look at less and less.
You also mention “he” and it being singular; throughout the old testament the nation of Israel is referred to in the singular. God calls Israel HIS son (Ex. 4:23), this singular term applies to Israeli as a whole. In Hosea 11:1 “For, when Israel was young, I loved him, and from Egypt I called My son.” Jer 31:8, 17, 19; Ephraim is spoken of in the singular. So the “he” fits very well with being Israel and makes more sense than being a reference to Jesus.
There is a lot going on within these chapters and to understand them one must start at the beginning and not the middle. The sad part is modern Christians know very little of the old testament as most are taught that half is “irrelevant”, but is fill with great stories and subsequently don’t study the old as the new is more important.
I think this is a fitting quote from Walter Brueggemann Ph.D. concerning Isa 53:
“[A]lthough it is clear that this poetry does not have Jesus in any first instance on its horizon, it is equally clear that the church, from the outset, has found the poetry a poignant and generative way to consider Jesus, wherein humiliation equals crucifixion and exaltation equals resurrection and ascension.”
June 27, 2023 at 10:18 am#943893
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
You: Carmel……what do you think the words, “there is “NO” God besides me”. Means?,
Are you so ignorant you can’t even put that together?,
like I said even a simpleton can put that together. IMO
Me: Gene, WE ARE DEALING WITH SPECIFIC WORDING,
NOT WHAT WE CAN PUT TOGETHER!
You: what do you think the words, “there is
“NO” God besides me”. Means?,
ME: THERE YOU ARE!
THE ABOVE WORDING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MINE!
GOD CAN SAY WHAT HE WANTS!
BUT HUMANS ALSO BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY WANT, AS GOD GAVE THEM
FREE WILL Mr. Gene!
AS MUCH AS YOU BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WANT, IN THIS CASE,
THAT HUMANITY DOES NOT HAVE SUCH FREE WILL!
Me: NOW READ SPECIFICALLY AGAIN MY WORDING:

WHY DON’T WE READ IN FULL CLARITY IN THE OT.,
THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?

AS YOU CAN WELL SEE AND READ!
IN YOUR WORDING THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE WORDS,
FATHER, ONLY, and the most VITAL word
TRUE!!!
ANSWER Gene, IF YOU ALSO KNOW WHAT THE WORD
“ANSWER” MEANS:
WHY DIDN’T GOD APART FROM SAYING
THERE’S NO GOD BESIDES ME,
IN THE OT. EVER HIMSELF CONFIRMS THAT
HE IS ALSO
THE FATHER, ONLY, and TRUE ?
NEVER MIND, I TELL YOU, Mr. Gene,

BECAUSE GOD KNEW THAT FOR HUMANITY SPIRITUALLY DEAD,
SATANIC,
TO BE CLEAR, SATAN, ALSO A SPIRIT LIKE GOD IS,
and THEIR FATHER! John8:44,Ephesians 2:3.
MUST BE PHYSICALLY PROVEN ON THIS SATANIC PLANET NOT JUST SAY SO, THAT HE IS
THE FATHER, and THE ONLY one TRUE!
CONSIDERING THE FACT I REPEAT, THAT
SATAN THE FATHER OF LIES, ALSO CONCLUDED THAT
HE IS THE ONLY GOD AND FATHER OF THE HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD ON THIS PLANET! Ephesians 2:3, John8:44.
AND ONLY ONE WAY LEFT FOR GOD THE FATHER TO OFFICIALLY ON THIS PLANET DETERMINE HE HIMSELF, SINCE THERE’S WAS NO GOD BESIDES HIM,
THE TRUTH!
NOW YOU TELL ME MR. GENIUS!
WHAT WAS THE ONLY WAY FOR GOD TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF
NOT JUST THAT HE IS GOD, BUT ALSO, THAT HE IS
THE ONLY, “TRUE”, and FATHER
of the HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD?
AND ALSO SATANIC!
CHILDREN OF WRATH! Ephesians 2:3
I AM WAITING!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ

June 27, 2023 at 12:27 pm#943894
DesireTruth
Participant
@Carmel,
What is this convoluted mess you speak?!?! God never referred to himself as a “Father”??!?! Is this a joke?!? Oh wait, God never referred to himself as the “TRUE” Father. Is it possible you can mince words any more than you do? I’m sorry, your falsehoods are getting tiresome!
God speaking in Jer 31:9 “They went forth with weeping, and I will bring them back with consolation, causing them to lodge by the channels of waters in a straight way, and they shall not err in it: for I have become a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn.” And HE never called himself a “father”?
Jer 3:19 “And I said, So be it, Lord, for You said I will set you among children, and will give you a choice land, the inheritance of the Almighty God of the Gentiles. And I said, You shall call me Father; and you shall not turn away from Me.” Did God just refer to himself as “father”?
Malachi 1:6 “A son honors his father, and a servant his master: if then I am a Father, where is My honor? And if I am a Master, where is My fear? Says the Lord Almighty. You the priests are they that despise My name: yet you said, In what way have we despised Your name?” Isn’t God saying HE is a “father” that should be honored? Isn’t HE greater than an earthly father?
I could get into passages where God refers to Israel as HIS son or child, thus invoking a fatherly relationship. Do tell all what it means to be a “true” father if God hasn’t demonstrated what it means to be a “true” father. Has HE not extended mercy, grace, loving kindness, or discipline to HIS chosen child like a “true”earthly father would extend to theirs?
I do love me a good game of semantics!
June 27, 2023 at 7:08 pm#943895
carmel
Participant
Hi Desiretruth,
You: @Carmel,
What is this convoluted mess you speak?!?! God never referred to himself as a “Father”??!?! Is this a joke?!? Oh wait, God never referred to himself as the “TRUE” Father. Is it possible you can mince words any more than you do? I’m sorry, your falsehoods are getting tiresome!
God speaking in Jer 31:9 “They went forth with weeping, and I will bring them back with consolation, causing them to lodge by the channels of waters in a straight way, and they shall not err in it: for I have become a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn.” And HE never called himself a “father”?
Jer 3:19 “And I said, So be it, Lord, for You said I will set you among children, and will give you a choice land, the inheritance of the Almighty God of the Gentiles. And I said, You shall call me Father; and you shall not turn away from Me.” Did God just refer to himself as “father”?
Malachi 1:6 “A son honors his father, and a servant his master: if then I am a Father, where is My honor? And if I am a Master, where is My fear? Says the Lord Almighty. You the priests are they that despise My name: yet you said, In what way have we despised Your name?” Isn’t God saying HE is a “father” that should be honored? Isn’t HE greater than an earthly father?
I could get into passages where God refers to Israel as HIS son or child, thus invoking a fatherly relationship. Do tell all what it means to be a “true” father if God hasn’t demonstrated what it means to be a “true” father. Has HE not extended mercy, grace, loving kindness, or discipline to HIS chosen child like a “true”earthly father would extend to theirs?
I do love me a good game of semantics!

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT NOT EVEN YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO UNDERSTAND THE
ACTUAL VARIOUS MEANINGS AND REFERENCES TO THE WORDING YOU YOURSELF PRODUCED IN THE ABOVE!
ANSWER PLEASE:
HOW CAN GOD THE FATHER, A SPIRIT, MOST HOLY AND ETERNAL, CAN EVER BE
THE GOD AND FATHER OF THE MORTAL AND CURSED HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD?
WHEN THE HUMAN RACE HAD ONLY ONE FATHER IN RELATION TO THEIR MORTAL AND CURSED FLESH AND BLOOD?
SATAN!
THE FACT THAT JESUS CAME INTO THIS WORLD
IN FLESH AND BLOOD FROM HEAVEN!
Me: NOW READ SPECIFICALLY AGAIN MY WORDING:

WHY DON’T WE READ IN FULL CLARITY IN THE OT.,
THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?
ONLY THE ABOVE WORDING I WANT TO FIND IN THE OT!
WHY YOU MIGHT ASK?
ALL THAT YOU PRODUCED ABOVE FOR A START,
ARE ONLY REFERENCES TO
THE JEWS OR ISRAELITES!
I WAS CLEAR ENOUGH AND I SAID
THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND FATHER OF THE HUMAN RACE IN
GENERAL!
WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTIONS!
NOW ALSO,
PICK ANY VERSE FROM YOUR POST AND SPECIFICALLY EXPLAIN TO WHOM IT IS REFERRING!
I TELL YOU STRAIGHT:
IT IS NOT REFERRING TO
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE FOR SURE!
ALSO, KEEP IN MIND THAT
ISRAEL IS A SPIRITUAL NAME ATTRIBUTED TO JESUS, GIVEN BY GOD????
THE TRUE ISRAEL!
Hosea 1:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
NOT A CARNAL NAME LIKE JACOB, ATTRIBUTED TO
THE MORTAL BODY OF JACOB!
THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL!
LUCIFER!
THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT DISTINCT AND OPPOSING REFERENCES!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

June 28, 2023 at 1:24 am#943896
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel…….Jesus said (not me) …..> pray this way , “OUR” Father who art in heaven’’……. And again….> “how much more shall “YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER” GIVE the Holy Spirit to them that ask him”. So tell us what does the words “OUR ” and “YOUR” mean there to you, O “self appointed”, wise one? Obviously not the same as it does to the rest of all humanity.
Face it Carmel, you haven’t a clue to what you are saying here.
peace and love to you and yours……..gene

June 28, 2023 at 1:42 am#943897
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Desire Truth…….I agree the king James, does have many Grammatical errors in it, many words are translated as much as ten different ways with ten different meanings in the text, but I believe the Spirit of truth in us gets us to the right meanings.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth……….gene
June 28, 2023 at 5:30 am#943899
carmel
Participant
Carmel…….Jesus said (not me) …..> pray this way , “OUR” Father who art in heaven’’……. And again….> “how much more shall “YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER” GIVE the Holy Spirit to them that ask him”.
So tell us what does the words “OUR ” and “YOUR” AND IT IT mean there to you,
Me: WHO SAID THE ABOVE STATEMENTS Gene?
WHY IN THE OT. WE NEVER READ SUCH STATEMENTS?
AND SINCE THEY NEVER APPEAR IN THE OT, AREN’T THE ABOVE AS YOU BELIEVE AND SAID SIMPLY
LIES?
Gene, I ASKED YOU QUESTIONS AND YOU NEVER ANSWERED ANY YET SPECIFICALLY!
NOW THE LAST ONE IS THIS ONE HEREUNDER AND IT IS PRECISELY
DIRECTED TO YOUR QUESTION ABOVE! READ:
NOW YOU TELL ME MR. GENIUS!
WHAT WAS THE ONLY WAY FOR GOD TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF
NOT JUST THAT HE IS GOD, BUT ALSO, THAT HE IS
THE ONLY, “TRUE”, and FATHER
of the HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD?
AND ALSO SATANIC!
CHILDREN OF WRATH! Ephesians 2:3
CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL! John8:44.
I AM WAITING!
YOU: O “self appointed”, wise one?
THE ABOVE IS YOUR CORRUPTED CARNAL REASONING!
REFER TO MY POSTS AND VERIFY WHAT I ALWAYS SAY REGARDING WHAT I SAY AND REVEAL!
AFTER ALL, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN FREE WILL. THOUGH YOU DON’T ADMIT IT!
You: Obviously not the same as it does to the rest of all humanity.
Face it Carmel, you haven’t a clue to what you are saying here.
YOU NEVER PROVED IT YET!
I AM NOT HERE TO PLEASE ANYONE, ESPECIALLY YOU WITH EVERY RESPECT UNLESS I DENY JESUS CHRIST IN
THE HOLY GHOST WHO GUIDES, AND FURNISHES ME WITH ALL WHAT I POST AND REVEAL! John14:16, 25, John15:26, John16:12-15
THE FACT THAT YOU NEVER ANSWERED SPECIFICALLY ANY OF MY QUESTIONS!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

June 28, 2023 at 3:31 pm#943903
DesireTruth
Participant
@Carmel,
I don’t know if you accidentally or intentionally made the connection; but, an astute observation in God’s relationship with the nation of Israel. To the nation of Israel and only the nation of Israel is God ever mentioned as being a “father” and I never proposed anything different. That is NOT to say a non-Jew cannot have a relationship with God; as scripture states that an “alien in the land of Israel” who follows God’s commands is to be treated as a brother. We must also remember it wasn’t just the Jewish people who left with Moses but a “mixed multitude” of people (non-Jews) that went out to worship, wandered in the desert, and entered the “promised land.” In short God is the “father” to those who do HIS commands.
You mention the phrase “true God” are you looking for the words to have been said by God or just the phrase within the old testament? God never says of HIMSELF “I am your Father and True God” in a single sentence. The phrase “true God” IS written in 2 Chron 15:3 and Jer 10:10 and there is no doubt of whom it is speaking. To be honest I’m not even sure where you are going with this or why it’s even a concern as “true God” is only said twice in the OT and three times in the NT and in each instance Jesus isn’t said to be God.
YOU: “HOW CAN GOD THE FATHER, A SPIRIT, MOST HOLY AND ETERNAL, CAN EVER BE THE GOD AND FATHER OF THE MORTAL AND CURSED HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD?”
ME: Your “god” must be little, because my God created everything – as stated in Genesis 1 – and on the sixth day, created man in his image and likeness. Are you saying the originator of human life isn’t the father of his creation? Yikes!! If you prefer Satan to be your father, that’s up to you; I prefer to say God, the creator of heaven and earth, is mine.
YOU: “WHY DON’T WE READ IN FULL CLARITY IN THE OT., THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD? ONLY THE ABOVE WORDING I WANT TO FIND IN THE OT!”
ME: Starting to sound like me wanting the scripture in the OT where Paul states “according to scripture” the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind, was to be buried, and raised up on the third day (I Cor 15:3,4)? While your searching for that, find in the OT where the innocent are to suffer for the guilt of another. If this isn’t in the OT, the veracity of the NT comes into question.
YOU: ALSO, KEEP IN MIND THAT ISRAEL IS A SPIRITUAL NAME ATTRIBUTED TO JESUS, GIVEN BY GOD????
ME: Is this a question or statement? If it’s a question then NO! If a statement, give me the verse that states “Israel is the spiritual name attributed to Jesus.” If no verse exists, what you state is man made and isn’t part of scripture and therefore false.
YOU: Hosea 1:1 (Hosea 11:1 fixed) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
NOT A CARNAL NAME LIKE JACOB, ATTRIBUTED TO THE MORTAL BODY OF JACOB! THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT DISTINCT AND OPPOSING REFERENCES!
ME: What is your point, not sure what you’re trying to address with this verse? Israel isn’t a “carnal name like Jacob”? What does this mean? Jacob’s name was changed to Israel after wrestling with an angel and literally means “one who struggles with God.” I see nothing apposing in this verse; when I read it. God is stating Israel is his child, whom he loves, to the point HE calls Israel HIS son. I think you are reading into everything to much and creating confusion. I like to keep things as simple as possible and read the words that are there instead of between the lines all the time.
As a side note, can you please write in a normal fashion; your format is extremely distracting and hard to follow. Stop with the all caps, there is no need to constantly yell.
June 28, 2023 at 3:49 pm#943904
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
King James has some serious issues! It is changing the tenses of verbs and thus changing the context of what is written, therefore changing scripture; thus making the translation a corrupt version. If you are going to rely on the “spirit of truth” to discern for you, you are making a huge mistake. The “spirit of truth” is what or whom? John is the only one who mentions this spirit. God never speaks of it nor does Jesus. So are we to individually rely on what we believe to be the “spirit” to guide us? This has the potential to be dangerous.
Instead of focusing on me saying the KJ is corrupt, what about the rest of what I spoke on or are you still digesting?
June 28, 2023 at 7:29 pm#943905
carmel
Participant
Hi Desire truth,
ME: Your “god” must be little, because
my God created everything – as stated in Genesis 1 –
THE ABOVE IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF GOD’S OWN WORK BY
“THE WORD” JESUS, AS A SPIRIT!
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8
THE SON OF MAN TO BE!
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON!
You: and on the sixth day, created man in his image and likeness.
Me: I LIKE THIS ONE DT. IT IS ONE OF MY FAVOURITES!
NOW THE ONLY EMBODIMENT, IMAGE, SHAPE, AND FORM OF GOD IS
JESUS, PREEXISTED BEFORE CREATION EVEN AS THE SON OF MAN,
John 3:13, THE BEGINNING OF ALL BEGINNINGS OF GOD’S GENERAL WORK!
That means that the first-ever man, always with respect to Genesis 2:7 FORMED and CREATED by GOD, WAS IN ACTUAL FACT IN THE IMAGE OF JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, HIDDEN IN ADAM, HIS ETERNAL LIFE AT ALL COSTS! John 1:3,4 THE FACT THAT HE IS/WAS SLAIN……..Rev. 13:8
Are you saying the originator of human life isn’t the father of his creation? Yikes!! If you prefer Satan to be your father, that’s up to you; I prefer to say God, the creator of heaven and earth, is mine.
ENJOY IT!
NOW SCRIPTURE IS NOT JUST THAT PARTICULAR VERSE IN Genesis 2:7
READ WHAT OCCURRED in Genesis 3:17 And to Adam he said:
Because thou hast hearkened to
the VOICE of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree,
ANSWER DT, WHO ACTUALLY WAS THE VOICE OF THE WOMAN?
WHY DIDN’T GOD SAY YOU LISTENED TO YOUR WIFE?
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE WOMAN AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME
WAS SPIRITUALLY DEAD!
THAT MEANS THAT THE WOMAN LOST HER SPIRITUAL STATE CREATED BY GOD, AND
BECAME THE DEVIL’S FEMALE ENTITY,
ALIVE IN HER FILTHY CORRUPTED MORTAL FLESH!
I LEAVE IT TO YOUR EARTHLY WISDOM, WHICH IS QUITE COMMON, IN ORDER TO REALIZE WHAT KIND OF WOMAN, AGAIN SPIRITUALLY DEAD AND IN A CORRUPTED STATE, ADAM WAS MESMERIZED WITH, THE FACT THAT HE JUST GRABBED THE FRUIT AND ATE OF IT, WITH THE HOPE TO BE
LIKE THE WOMAN OR AS SCRIPTURE SAYS
a helper LIKE HIMSELF.
THAT’S ENOUGH OF THAT!
SO CARRY ON READING AND BE AWARE OF THE REST!
Genesis 3…
whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat,
cursed is the earth in thy work;
with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life. 18Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou eat the herbs of the earth.19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth,
out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return.
Answer, DT. WAS ADAM IN THE IMAGE OF YOUR GOD! OR
IN THE IMAGE OF MY GOD,
NO, NO, AND NO, NOT SATAN AS YOU CORRUPTLY IMAGINED; I MEAN
MY GOD, YOU KNOW VERY WELL WHO IS
MY GOD IN FLESH AND BLOOD NO?
THERE’S ONLY ONE AND UNIQUE IN FULL GLORY!
JESUS CHRIST
THE ONLY TRUE GOD
ON THIS PLANET EARTH! here it comes:
THE FACT THAT HE IS,

OUR FATHER, TRUE, and ONLY!
TELL ME DT:
WHAT DETERMINES THAT SOMETHING IS TRUE ON THIS PLANET?
READ:
1 John5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come:
and he hath given us understanding that we may know
THE TRUE GOD,
and may be in his TRUE SON.
This is the true God and life eternal.
Back to Genesis,
20And Adam called the name of his wife Eve: because she was the mother of all the living.21And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife,
garments of skins, and clothed them.
ARE YOU IN A POSITION, ALWAYS USE YOUR EARTHLY WISDOM, AND TELL US WHAT ARE THE GARMENTS OF SKINS GOD CLOTHED THEM WITH?
NOW READ THIS:
23And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure,
to till the earth from which he was taken.
24 And he cast out Adam;
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WOMAN?
WHY NOT GOD ALSO INCLUDED THE WOMAN IN THE ABOVE?
and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way,
to keep the way of the tree of life.
You: ME: Your “god” must be little, because my God created everything – as stated in Genesis 1 – and on the sixth day, created man in his image and likeness.
it is a different story altogether from the above, AFTER GENESIS 2:7
don’t you think so?
You: As a side note, can you please write in a normal fashion; your format is extremely distracting and hard to follow. Stop with the all caps, there is no need to constantly yell.
Well, I do my best to improve!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

June 29, 2023 at 2:25 am#943907
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Desire Truth……..scripture tells us (not me)…….> John 2:27….> “But the “ANOINTING” which you have received of (from) him abides in you, and you need not that “ANY” man teach you: but as the same “Anointing” teaches you of (about) all things, and is “TRUTH”, and is no lie, and even as it (the spirit of truth) has taught you , you shall abide in him.
And again……> John 14: 15-17……> ” if you love me keep my commandments, and I shall pray the Father, and (HE) you another Comforter, that (He, God) may abide with you “FOREVER”; Even the SPIRIT (a cognisity) OF TRUTH ; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you (he was in Jesus) , and shall be “IN” YOU.
The same anointing Spirit, “SPIRIT OF TRUTH”, that is in Jesus, the anointed one, of God, is in all those who have been given it to them, by God the Father , That is the true “Comforter”.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth………gene.

June 29, 2023 at 3:59 pm#943908
DesireTruth
Participant
@Carmel,
Once again you are reading between the lines; when God said HE created man in HIS image and likeness, HE was only referring to Jesus?!? In what image and likeness was man created then, if not in God’s as He stated? Are you seriously claiming we were actually created in the image of Jesus?!? If this is the case, then Jesus is the God of the old testament. Please quote me the verse from any place in the bible that states this.
What exactly am I to enjoy?
Other translations state Adam just “listened” to his wife and ate from the tree. You are focused on the word “voice” as if the voice is something mystical. The words and sounds that emanated from the mouth of Eve were hers when she offered the fruit to Adam. She was deceived and made the choice to partake of the fruit. It sounds as if you are casting all the blame for Eve’s actions on the serpent. Who’s fault would it be if you were told to jump off a cliff and you did? Are you saying you didn’t have enough reasoning power to deduce jumping off a cliff would be dangerous or even deadly and is therefore the fault of the one who encouraged you to do it. That would be ridiculous to blame the other, you would be just plain stupid for having jumped.
You ask what happened to Eve when Adam was caste from Eden; is this really a sticky point for you? Unless you are a “screaming, leftist liberal”, the wife follows after the man as she is to be “submissive” to him. How exactly is this even a question for you?
Sorry, it’s not a “different story” after Gen 2:7. Here’s something to ponder, read Gen 2:17 and what Eve said in Gen 3:3. Did you notice she added to God’s command by saying to not touch it either. Are we to add to God’s commands; according to Prov 30:6 better not or you will be found a liar.
Until you answer the question concerning I Cor 15:3,4; stop quoting new testament as I will ignore all of it. The new testament is in question until that is answered.
June 29, 2023 at 7:16 pm#943909
carmel
Participant
H Desiretruth,
You: In what image and likeness was man created then, if not in God’s as He stated?
Me: from the above, it is evidently clear that YOU HAVEN’T GOT THE SLIGHTEST PERCEPTION OF WHAT GOD IS!
WHERE IN THE OT WE CAN HAVE THE SLIGHTEST AWARENESS OF
THE IMAGE OF GOD?
You: Are you seriously claiming we were actually created in the image of Jesus?!?
MORE THAN SERIOUSLY CLAIMING SO! AS A TRUE CHRISTIAN!
If this is the case, then Jesus is the God of the old testament.
AGAIN DEFINITELY AS A TRUE CHRISTIAN!
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD created heaven, and earth.
2:1 And the earth was void and empty, and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep; and the SPIRIT OF GOD moved over the waters.

AS YOU CAN WELL READ, GOD IS MENTIONED IN 1:1
ON THE OTHER HAND IN 1:2 ONLY THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS MENTIONED!
WHAT HAPPENED TO GOD?
THAT SPIRIT OF GOD IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD IN THE HOLY GHOST.
THE VERY FIRST TITLE IN VERSE 2, PROBABLY THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL VERSE, IS
DARKNESS!
THAT DARKNESS IS A REFERENCE TO “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE. THE BEGINNING OF ALL BEGINNINGS OF GOD’S WORK.
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Re. 13:8
PRECISELY HIDDEN, ETERNAL LIFE WITHIN LUCIFER/SATAN, TO BE PRECISE, THE REBELLIOUS SPIRITS!
Psalm 18:11, Duet 5:22,23, 2 Chronicles 6:1.
THUS, IN RELATION TO THE SPIRITUAL SIDE OF CREATION,
IS JESUS, THE HOLY GHOST, THE SON OF GOD, AND
IN RELATION TO THE PHYSICAL CREATION IS JESUS “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN!
WELL SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED BY JESUS IN
John 4:35 Do you not say, There are yet four months, and then the harvest cometh? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes, and see the countries; for they are white already to harvest.
36And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life everlasting:
that both HE that soweth, and HE that reapeth, may rejoice together.
37For in this is the saying true: That it is one man that soweth, and it is another that reapeth.
38I have sent you to reap that in which you did not labour: others have laboured, and you have entered into their labours.
John13:31When he therefore was gone out, Jesus said:
Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
32 If God be glorified in him, God also will glorify him in himself; and immediately will he glorify him.
Please quote me the verse from any place in the bible that states this.
THE ABOVE VERSE OF GENESIS 1:2, IS THE VERY FIRST SCRIPTURE THAT GOD CREATED
ALL THROUGH/BY HIS SON
JESUS,
PREEXISTED AS SPIRIT OF GOD!
NOW YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING HERE SIMPLY
TO PERSUADE ME OTHERWISE!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
June 30, 2023 at 1:34 am#943911
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel. You said……..>”ON THE OTHER HAND IN 1:2 ONLY THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS MENTIONED!
WHAT HAPPENED TO GOD?”
Are you sitting down because here comes your answer……> Jesus said (not me)……>John 4:24….> ” God “IS” A Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and truth” . So if God is a Spirit as Jesus said, then what difference is there ?
Now worm your way out of that one, I sure you can as all false teachers can somehow.
Carmel you either believe what Jesus says or not, in your case it is evident you don’t . IMO
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel………..gene
June 30, 2023 at 1:38 am#943912
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
I realize what I have been writing lately goes against everything I have said in the past; but, what Paul said about the Messiah is huge by claiming “according to scripture” the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind, be buried, and raised on the third day. Paul wasn’t saying when you read between lines of the OT you will find Jesus, he was saying it is written in the OT. This means there are passages that explicitly state this and I have yet to find anything written saying “the Messiah” was to take on the sins of mankind and die for them, let alone be raised from the dead. I’ll repeat myself; if these statements cannot be found in the OT, Christianity has a huge problem.
When you say the “spirit of truth” teaches all things and is no lie, this “spirit of truth” that everyone claims is revealing the “truth”, why is there zero agreement on what is plainly said within the pages of the bible? When crossing between religious beliefs, no one agrees on what the NT says; everyone has there own interpretation. How can this be possible IF the “spirit of truth”, who cannot lie, is in everyone? We should all be one in thought and purpose; yet, we are completely divided.
It seems the NT causes division, strife, and chaos; why would anyone want to be a part of that? There is something wrong in “Christianity” today. The modern church is on the verge of collapse, for the last 1700 years fear brought people into the church and now that isn’t working so they have latched onto inclusivity, under the guise of “loving your neighbor” and filling the church with the alphabet soup crowd and teaching what they are doing is okay, “God loves them for who they are” and loving them “straight to Hell.”
Look in your churches, do you have more seats open than you have people filling them? Is your church small and the same size as when it started? Are your seats bursting with young, single, working adults or is that group missing? As you sit in your seat, are you sitting through a monologue of the pastor or are you able to engage them and ask questions in that moment? This observation, is the church today. We need to wake up!
June 30, 2023 at 9:00 am#943913
carmel
Participant

Carmel. You said……..>”ON THE OTHER HAND IN 1:2 ONLY THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS MENTIONED!
WHAT HAPPENED TO GOD?”
Are you sitting down because here comes your answer……> Jesus said (not me)……>John 4:24….> ” God “IS” A Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and truth” . So if God is a Spirit as Jesus said, then what difference is there ?
Now worm your way out of that one, I sure you can as all false teachers can somehow.
ME: do you know something Gene,
FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME, YOU REALLY GAVE ME SOMETHING TO CHEW:
KIDS’ STUFF
June 30, 2023 at 9:24 am#943914
carmel
Participant

June 30, 2023 at 1:04 pm#943917
DesireTruth
Participant
@ Carmel,
I am stunned by your response! None of what you said is supported by scripture. The only thing that comes to mind is, “get behind me Satan.” Then to claim you are a “true christian” as if not believing as you do somehow makes a “false Christian.”
It is no wonder the “church” is falling apart, you have created Jesus, a self proclaimed MAN, into someone who is greater than the creator of everything. There is a fiery place waiting for you.
You then go on to claim “darkness” is a title?!?!? Have you completely gone off the deep end? Darkness ISN’T a title, it’s the lack of light, where did you come up this statement? Then to say it refers to Jesus??!!? Jesus is “Darkness”?!? Is Jesus Satan? If Jesus is “darkness” how can “light” be in him? If Jesus is “darkness” and the NT is all about Jesus, does that mean the NT is deception? I think you better put the lid back on Pandora’s Box.
Then to say Jesus is the “spirit of God”; I thought Jesus was God. How many bottles of wine did you drink first!?
You need to explain this passage Isa 45:5-7 “I am HaShem, and there is none else, beside Me there is no G-d; I have girded thee, though thou hast not known Me; 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me; I am HaShem; and there is none else; 7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am HaShem, that doeth all these things.”
If God does all things where exactly does Jesus factor into all this?
If Jesus is “darkness”, God created him, so how exactly could Jesus preexist, let alone be the creator? Or is this “kid’s stuff”? Apparently answering where in the OT the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind is “adult stuff”, because you and everyone else has avoided that question like the plague.
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John 8:17 And in your law it is written,

that the testimony of two men is true.

IS THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD!

THE TRUTH!

THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?

IT WOULD BE A LIE.

YES OR NO PLEASE!

THE ONLY TRUE

GODMAN?

SOMETHING IS TRUE ON THIS PLANET?

I AM WAITING PLEASE.

NOT WHAT WE CAN PUT TOGETHER!

“NO” God besides me”. Means?,

FREE WILL Mr. Gene!

THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?

FATHER, ONLY, and the most VITAL word

TRUE!!!

“ANSWER” MEANS:

THERE’S NO GOD BESIDES ME,

THE FATHER, ONLY, and TRUE ?

SATANIC,

and THEIR FATHER! John8:44,Ephesians 2:3.

THE FATHER, and THE ONLY one TRUE!

THE TRUTH!

THE ONLY, “TRUE”, and FATHER

of the HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD?

I AM WAITING!

SATAN!

IN FLESH AND BLOOD FROM HEAVEN!

THAT THE “FATHER” IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?

ONLY THE ABOVE WORDING I WANT TO FIND IN THE OT!

WHY YOU MIGHT ASK?

ALL THAT YOU PRODUCED ABOVE FOR A START,

THE JEWS OR ISRAELITES!

GENERAL!

WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTIONS!

LIES?

THE ONLY, “TRUE”, and FATHER

I AM WAITING!

YOU: O “self appointed”, wise one?

You: Obviously not the same as it does to the rest of all humanity.

Face it Carmel, you haven’t a clue to what you are saying here.

YOU NEVER PROVED IT YET!

my God created everything – as stated in Genesis 1 –

the VOICE of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree,

WAS SPIRITUALLY DEAD!

BECAME THE DEVIL’S FEMALE ENTITY,

a helper LIKE HIMSELF.

cursed is the earth in thy work;

MY GOD IN FLESH AND BLOOD NO?

THERE’S ONLY ONE AND UNIQUE IN FULL GLORY!

JESUS CHRIST

THE ONLY TRUE GOD

OUR FATHER, TRUE, and ONLY!

THE TRUE GOD,

and may be in his TRUE SON.

This is the true God and life eternal.

garments of skins, and clothed them.

ARE YOU IN A POSITION, ALWAYS USE YOUR EARTHLY WISDOM, AND TELL US WHAT ARE THE GARMENTS OF SKINS GOD CLOTHED THEM WITH?

23And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure,

to keep the way of the tree of life.

DARKNESS!

that both HE that soweth, and HE that reapeth, may rejoice together.

KIDS’ STUFF

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