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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • April 27, 2021 at 12:27 am#870384
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Well answered Carmel and good courage for all the work for the Son

     

    April 27, 2021 at 1:00 am#870386
    Berean
    Participant

    To all

    1 COR.8:7,8

    For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him

     

    BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS

    See COLOSSIANS 1:16👇

    all things were created by him, and for him:

     

    HIM= THE SON OF GOD

    BY HIM  : DIA AUTOU

    FOR HIM: EIS AUTON

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    April 27, 2021 at 1:44 am#870387
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..God himself and alone created everything that exists, Jesus himself  never created anything, he himself never did not one miracle either himself,  it was God the Father alone who did it all, and no one else.

    The ‘him’ you are referring to is GOD the “ONLY” TRUE GOD”, that is if you “truly” believe what Jesus Christ himself said, but it is obvious you truly don’t believe him, or you would already now that.

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

    April 27, 2021 at 2:51 am#870388
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all…..Jesus spent his whole life on this earth “glorifying”, God the Father. Saying , “I have “glorified” you on the earth”.

    Trinitarians, ..spend all their time “robbing God the Father of his glory and giving it to Jesus. Something Jesus Christ never would even think of doing.

    Now ask yourself what did God do to Ancient Israel when they did that, by giving God’s glory to pagan God’s,  and provoking Him and making him jealous,  he cast them out of the land he gave them.

    Remember what God the Father said,

    Isa 42:8…..I am the LORD ; that is my name: and “my glory” will I not give to another, neither “my praise” to graven “images”.

    Trinitarians have turned the “image” of Jesus into their God, and even worship him as their God.  Jesus himself will by his own mouth abolish them and their teachings at his return.  2 Ths 2.

    peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

     

    April 27, 2021 at 3:36 am#870389
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOUR MOUTH. YOU ARE A FAKE TEACHER.

    1 COR.8:7,8

    For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him
    BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS
    See COLOSSIANS 1:16

    all things were created by him, and for him:
    HIM= THE SON OF GOD

    BY HIM  : DIA AUTOU

    FOR HIM: EIS AUTON 

     

    PROVE I DON’T TELL THE TRUTH

     

     

    April 27, 2021 at 6:14 am#870390
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..What you just quoted proved it.

    But unto us (true believers ) there is but “ONE” God, the Father , of whom are “ALL” things, and we “in” him;

    Berean……just digest that part  first ok, and let it sink in. Before you finish reading  the rest,  of the sentence ok,  now tell us who actually “made”,  “ALL” things. Was it the son, the man Jesus Christ or God the Father?  Trying to make the text say what in-fact it doesn’t really imply, nor mean is what false teachers like you trinitarians do.

    The greek word “dia”  means for the sake or purpose of.  Otherwise the completed sentence would be in contradiction of  itself.  The rest of that sentence also shows we go to God the Father through Jesus, by him paying for our sins,  but even that was from God the Father. “for God so loved the world “HE” GAVE, his only begotten Son, that he who believes in him “Should” not die but have everlasting life”.   All of everything in existence is a work of “one”  God, the Father .

    Not to even mention the many, many, many other scriptures that show God the Father , “alone” and by “himself”  created everything in existence.

    Peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

     

     

    April 27, 2021 at 7:33 am#870391
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOUR MOUTH. YOU ARE A FAKE TEACHER.

    1 COR.8:7,8

    For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him
    BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS
    See COLOSSIANS 1:16

    all things were created by him, and for him:
    HIM= THE SON OF GOD

    BY HIM  : DIA AUTOU

    FOR HIM: EIS AUTON 

    April 27, 2021 at 9:37 am#870392
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU:Berean…..God himself and alone created everything that exists, Jesus himself  never created anything,

    he himself never did not one miracle either himself,

     it was God the Father alone who did it all, and no one else.

    ME: John13:5After that, he putteth water into a basin, and

    began to wash the feet of the disciples,
    and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. 

    Answer Gene,

    WHO WASHED AND DRIED THE FEET OF THE APOSTLES?

    JESUS?

    GOD THE FATHER? OR

    BOTH JESUS AND GOD THE FATHER?

    6He cometh therefore to Simon Peter. And Peter saith to him:

    Lord, dost thou wash my feet? 
    7Jesus answered, and said to him: What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8Peter saith to him:

    Thou shalt never wash my feet.

    Jesus answered him:

    If I wash thee not, thou shalt have no part with

    ME. 

    John 10:30I and the Father are one.

    John14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me?

    Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 10 Do you not believe,

    that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

    The words (NOT MY WORDS, BUT WITH THE ARTICLE AND PLURAL, A CLEAR REFERENCE TO THE GOSPEL) that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.

    John 15:24 f I had not done among them THE WORKS  that  NO OTHER MAN hath done, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and

    hated both me and my Father.

    John17:And all my things are thine, and thine are mine; and

    I am glorified in them.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 27, 2021 at 9:46 am#870393
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: Hi Carmel

    Well answered Carmel and good courage for all the work for the Son

     

    ME: Matthew 10:32 Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven.

    33But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 28, 2021 at 2:52 am#870394
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel….. Jesus did every thing The only true God told him to do, so that makes him a servant of “his God, and “OUR” God, his Father and “OUR” Father”.  according to Jesus, we have the exact same relationship with the Father, who is both our God ,as he does.

    The true question here is why do yo people never stop trying to make Jesus completely different then we are? , Jesus never did that.

    In fact, he said we could do “greater works then he did ” .  Need scripture, I can certainly get it for you?

    You people are of the devil, who never stops trying to make Jesus appear “different” then his  brothers ad sisters.  Constantly trying to separate Jesus from our “exact” identity with him.
    You preach and teach him as different, and he will be in the end, to you.

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    April 28, 2021 at 2:52 am#870395
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel….. Jesus did every thing The only true God told him to do, so that makes him a servant of “his God, and “OUR” God, his Father and “OUR” Father”.  according to Jesus, we have the exact same relationship with the Father, who is both our God ,as he does.

    The true question here is why do yo people never stop trying to make Jesus completely different then we are? , Jesus never did that.

    In fact, he said we could do “greater works then he did ” .  Need scripture, I can certainly get it for you?

    You people are of the devil, who never stops trying to make Jesus appear “different” then his  brothers ad sisters.  Constantly trying to separate Jesus from our “exact” identity with him.
    You preach and teach him as different, and he will be in the end, to you.

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    April 28, 2021 at 3:03 am#870396
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

     

    What do you say about Colossians 1
    …. ???

    all things were created by him, and for him:

    BY HIM  : DIA AUTOU
    FOR HIM: EIS AUTON

    April 28, 2021 at 6:29 am#870397
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel….. Jesus did everything The only true God told him to do,

    ME: Answer Gene, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO THE ONLY TRUE GOD IS?

    YOU: according to Jesus, we have the exact same relationship with the Father, 

    ME: ANSWER Gene, HOW THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FATHER IS POSSIBLE?

    NOW IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU DIDN’T READ MY QUESTION SO READ HEREUNDER AGAIN PLEASE AND ANSWER!!!

    YOU:Berean…..God himself and alone created everything that exists, Jesus himself  never created anything,

    he himself never did not one miracle either himself,
     it was God the Father alone who did it all, and no one else.

    ME: John13:5After that, he putteth water into a basin, and

    began to wash the feet of the disciples,
    and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. 

    Answer Gene,

    WHO WASHED AND DRIED THE FEET OF THE APOSTLES?

    JESUS?

    GOD THE FATHER? OR

    BOTH JESUS AND GOD THE FATHER?

    John 15:24 f I had not done among them THE WORKS  that 

    NO OTHER MAN hath done,

    they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and

    hated both me and my Father.

    John17:And all my things are thine, and thine are mine; and

    I am glorified in them.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 28, 2021 at 9:55 am#870403
    carmel
    Participant

     Hi Mike,

    YOU: do you assume that something/someone positioned

    to the right OF God also

    IS God?

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel…..I am specific,  again, what man is “now” sitting in the “temple” of God ,

    Sitting at the right hand of God, and being displayed

    as a ” GOD”?

    ME: YES THE ABOVE  STATEMENTS FROM BOTH OF YOU, REQUIRE

    ONE COMMON ANSWER:

    FOR A CHANGE I AM GOING TO DO SOMETHING WHICH I HATE DOING, AND THAT IS

    I PUT GOD IN THE SAME BASKET AS HUMANS

    LIKE BOTH OF YOU ARE DOING WITH THE HOPE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND AND SEE THE TRUTH!

    LET SAY THAT BOTH OF YOU ARE

    RIGHTHANDED!

    WHAT IS YOUR RIGHT HAND FOR YOU BOTH?

    YOUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE! NO? ESPECIALLY IF YOUR LIVING DEPENDED TOTALLY ON IT!

    NOW IN THE SAME WAY,

    WHAT IS THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD FOR GOD SINCE SCRIPTURE EMPHATICALLY PROCLAIMS PRECISELY

    THE POWER OF THE  RIGHT HAND OF GOD!

    WOULD YOU ANSWER PLEASE? NO, YOU ARE NOT READY TO DO SO, I’M AFRAID.

    TRUTH  HURTS! I’LL ANSWER FOR YOU!

    THE RIGH THAND OF GOD IS

    THE ENTIRETY OF GOD!

    (MIKE:) YOU: do you assume that something/someone positioned

    to the right OF God also

    IS God?

    NO MIKE IT IS

    THE ENTIRETY OF GOD!

    (Gene) YOU: Carmel…..I am specific,  again, what man is “now” sitting in the “temple” of God ,

    Sitting at the right hand of God, and being displayed

    as a ” GOD”?

    NO Gene NOT JUST DISPLAYED AS A GOD!

    BUT IT IS 

    THE ENTIRETY OF GOD!

    GLORIFIED!

    John17:10 And all my things are thine, and

    thine are mine;

    and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.

    Peace and lov in Jesus Christ

     

     

    April 29, 2021 at 2:14 am#870406
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……The reason you don’t have a “personal” relationship with God the Father,  is because you don’t believe he exists, you have replaced him with, the “MAN” Jesus.  2ths2.  But what does scripture say,

    Heb 11: 5 ……But without “faith” it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God “must believe that he is” and he is a rewarder of them that “diligently” seek him”.
    All of Jesus’ ministry was about God the Father, and the kingdom of God.  As he said “I have glorified “YOU” on the earth”, Not himself.

    Carmel…..I have had hundreds of my prayers answered immediately by God the Father, and even heard his voice speak to me directly before. I know there truly exists a being called God the Father, even as Jesus knows it to, and I know Jesus is a human being and is not a God , Jesus Christ knows it also, even calling himself the son of man over 80 times, he speaks to us as a prophet of God , speaking the words which God gives him to tell us.

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

    April 29, 2021 at 2:48 am#870407
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..Is that the right hand that said “the son of man can do “NOTHING” OF HIMSELF? 

    And also said “Greater works then I do , you shall do”.

    Jesus never said or acted as a God,  ever, in-fact  he “clearly” said  our God was his God , our Father was his Father.   He is exactly in every was as we are a 100% pure human being. Who came into his “only” being from the loins of King David, just as he himself said.  You on the other hand do not truly believe Jesus nor what he said.

    peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    April 29, 2021 at 8:43 am#870408
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

     

    Gene

    THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOUR MOUTH.

    1 COR.8:7,8

    For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him
    BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS
    See COLOSSIANS 1:16

    all things were created by him, and for him:
    HIM= THE SON OF GOD

    BY HIM  : DIA AUTOU

    FOR HIM: EIS AUTON

     

    PROVE I DON’T TELL THE TRUTH

     

    DON’T RUN AWAY THE TRUTH, GENE
    THE TRUTH ONLY WILL SET YOU FREE

     

    April 29, 2021 at 9:12 am#870409
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel……The reason you don’t have a “personal” relationship with God the Father,  is because

    you don’t believe he exists,

    ME: Gene, YOUR WORDS CONFIRM THE DESPERATE STATE YOU’RE IN!

    John12:44HOW ON EARTH DO I HONOUR THE SON AND DON’T BELIEVE IN THE FATHER?

    I HONOUR THE SON BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE FATHER, AND IN WHAT HE SAYS!

    Luke 9:35And a voice came out of the cloud, saying:

    This is my beloved Son; HEAR HIM. 

    CAN’T YOU SEE THE NONSENSE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

    CAN A FATHER BE  A FATHER WITHOUT A SON???

    CAN A SON BE A SON WITHOUT A FATHER???

    THE FATHER CANNOT ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS FATHER WITHOUT THE SON!!!

    NO FATHER NO SON!

    NO SON NO FATHER!

    John 14:6 Jesus saith to him:

    I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

    No man cometh to the Father,

    BUT BY ME.

    John5:23 That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father.

    He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.

    John14:7If you had known me, you would, without doubt, have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and

    you have seen him.

    John14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me?

    Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 

     

    Jhon 12:44 But Jesus cried, and said:

    He that believeth in me, doth not believe in me, but in him that sent me. 

    45And he that seeth me, seeth him that sent me. 

    John10:30I and the Father are one. 

     

    Peace n love in Jesus Christ

    April 30, 2021 at 2:11 am#870413
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..Point is not that you believe in Jesus, it’s in what way do you believe in him.
    you believe he is your God, a PREEXISTING God, who “morphed” himself into a human body.  Thats not the Jesus i believe in.

    I believe in a man Jesus who did not “preexist” as any kind of being until his birth on this earth, a man who came from the “loins” of king David, as scriptures say, Your Jesus is a God and a PREEXISTING God at that.

    My Jesus said that “many” deceivers would come and  say that he existed and was indeed the Christ and deceive “MANY “.

     I say that has already happened,  by people like you, who spend all your time trying to make Jesus himself, your God.
    I say Jesus was never a God.
    I say Jesus never preexisted his birth on this earth.                                               I say Jesus was and still is a 100% human being.
    I say he is the “ONLY” human being who sits in the Temple of God right “NOW” ,  WHO YOU FALSE TEACHERS “WORSHIP” AND DISPLAY HIM AS YOUR GOD. 2THS2. 

    I say I definitely preach a different Jesus then you people preach.
    I preach Jesus as my brother in God,  “our” Father, his and my God.

     I preach the man Jesus who by the indwelling  Spirit of God the Father which he received after his baptism when about doing the will of God, his God and my God. 

    I obey the word of God and have “NO OTHER GOD BESIDES HIM”, the “ONE” and “ONLY” TRUE GOD.

     I believe There is but “ONE” GOD and one “MEDIATOR” between men and God, the “MAN” Jesus Christ.

    You people on the other hand PREACH two or three God’s. So we definitely believe in a different Jesus’.  Well see who is right in the end won’t we?

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

     

     

     

    April 30, 2021 at 3:42 am#870415
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    ON THE DAY OF THE GREAT FINAL JUDGMENT, YOU WILL HAVE A SURPRISE OF SIZE WHEN YOU SEE YOURSELF TOO LATE THAT JESUS IS GOD AND THAT YOU RESISTED THE TRUTH THAT COULD HAVE SET YOU FREE …

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