Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 1,086

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

, , Questions & Answers, , , , , 25,931
Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 21,701 through 21,720 (of 25,932 total)
123…1,0851,0861,087…1,2951,2961,297
  • Author
    Posts
  • January 25, 2021 at 8:09 am#869097
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    YOU: They are one WHAT?

    ONE GOD! NO?

    THE FATHER IS DEFINITELY GOD ONLY OF ALL SPIRITS! But

    THE SON IS DEFINITELY THE GOD AND  FATHER BOTH OF

    ALL SPIRITS AND OF ALL FLESH!

    Well asserted in

    John20:17 ……But go to my brethren, and say to them:

    I ascend to (THE GLORY OF) my Father (SPIRIT) and to your Father,(FLESH) to my God (HEAVENLY) and your God.(EARTHLY)

    John17:10 And all my things are thine, (REGARDING THE FLESH)

    and thine are mine; (REGARDING THE SPIRIT) and

    I am glorified in them.

    The above statement from Jesus clearly confirms that

    Jesus Christ is the only divine being who possesses both

    the spiritual state and 

    the flesh state in

    one body at his disposition as he feels fit.

     

    YOU: Also, is the church “God” because the head of the church is “God?”

    Which scripture declares that

    “the head of the church is God”

    Just to remind you:

    Have you got any suggestion when Jesus was begotten on earth in relation to the scriptures hereunder:

    Acts 13:33 This same God hath fulfilled to our children, raising up Jesus, as in the SECOND PSALM also is written: Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    Psalm 2 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

     

    Peace and love in  Jesus Christ

    January 25, 2021 at 1:15 pm#869109
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Carmel,

    Also, is the church “God” because the head of the church is “God?”

    Which scripture declares that

    “the head of the church is God”

    1 Cor 11:3

    But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

    Acts 20:28

    Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

    January 25, 2021 at 1:18 pm#869110
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Carmel,

    They are one WHAT?

    ONE GOD! NO?

    John 17:22 I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united,

    They are one, i.e. perfectly united.

    January 25, 2021 at 1:19 pm#869111
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Carmel,

    Have you got any suggestion when Jesus was begotten on earth in relation to the scriptures hereunder:

    Acts 13:33 This same God hath fulfilled to our children, raising up Jesus, as in the SECOND PSALM also is written: Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    Psalm 2 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    This happened on the day that Jesus was begotten from the dead after his crucifixion.

    January 25, 2021 at 1:23 pm#869113
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    LU: If the YHVH Unity were a family, then just as Jesus is the Son within the YHVH family, his Father is the Father within the YHVH family.

    PC:I could make the same argument that they are aliens too.

    But a wise person sticks to scripture and doesn’t let their imagination run wild with things they really know nothing about.

    Then I suggest you stick to scripture.

    Find the answer to these questions in scripture to help you become a wise person:

    Think…how many persons who are identified specifically as YHVH in the Bible, (not merely containing part of YHVH in their name) took/take part in:

    Creation before the ages
    Salvation leading to eternal life

    Answer that correctly and you should be able to see more clearly.

     

    January 25, 2021 at 1:38 pm#869118
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @Proclaimer

    This has been asked of you since January 9, 2021. Here is a reminder:

    PC,

    Who does the Father identify as

    laying the foundations of the earth in this passage:

    In Hebrews 1

    8But about the Son He says:

    “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever,

    and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

    9You have loved righteousness

    and hated wickedness;

    therefore God, Your God, has anointed You

    above Your companions with the oil of joy.”

    10And:

    “In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,

    and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

    11They will perish, but You remain;

    they will all wear out like a garment.

    12You will roll them up like a robe;

    like a garment they will be changed;

    but You remain the same,

    and Your years will never end.”

    LU

    January 26, 2021 at 11:03 am#869126
    carmel
    Participant

    Carmel,

    Also, is the church “God” because the head of the church is “God?”

    Which scripture declares that

    “the head of the church is God”

    1 Cor 11:3

    But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

    Acts 20:28

    Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

    I can’t see how you concluded that from the above scriptures, God is the head of the church. He is though through Christ.

    Colossians1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church,…19 Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father,

    that all fullness should dwell.

    Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

    January 26, 2021 at 11:07 am#869127
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I can’t see how you concluded that from the above scriptures, God is the head of the church. He is though through Christ.

    To be fair. God is the head of all. Yes Christ is the head, but God is the head of him. God is the Most High.

    I know a guy who is the head of a McDonalds franchise. But he obviously doesn’t hold the most high position in McDonalds.

    January 26, 2021 at 11:48 am#869128
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    YOU:Carmel,

    They are one WHAT?

    ONE GOD! NO?

    John 17:22 I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united,

    They are one, i.e. perfectly united.

    BY WHAT PROCESS???

    ONLY GOD IS PERFECT, AND ONLY JESUS CHRIST UNITES THE ENTIRE CREATION  ALL PERFECT IN HIM, IN NO ONE ELSE!

    Colossians 1:19 Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; 

    20And through him to reconcile all things unto himself,

    making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to

    the things that are on earth, (PHYSICAL)and the things that are in heaven.(SPIRIT)

    Well clear hereunder:

    John17:10 And all my things (PHYSICAL)are thine, and thine (SPIRIT) are mine; and

    I am glorified in them. (not the Father)

    John17:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh,….

    It is well clear that the relationship between the Father and the Son is UNIQUE! And through Jesus, the entire creation is perfect and one with God

    John17:23 I in them, and

    thou in me;

    ONLY IN JESUS GOD ABIDES, AND JESUS IN ALL, AND ALL IN JESUS! there’s no direct contact between God and creation except by and in JESUS CHRIST.

    THEY ALL HAVE SINNED…..

    that they may be made perfect in one:

    JESUS CHRIST

    and the world may know that

    thou hast sent me,

    and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.  

    ONLY Jesus is glorified in the state of both

    the spirit and the flesh, HEAVENLY and EARTHLY, in one GLORIFIED body.

    the perfect mediator between the Father and creation.

    Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not of one:

    but God is one. 

    IN JESUS CHRIST, BOTH GOD, AND MEDIATOR.

    The Father is in his glory ONLY as a spirit. Till the last day of the Lord.

    John15:5 I am the vine; you the branches:

    he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:

    for without me

    you can do nothing. 

    Colossians 1:17 And he is before all, and

    by him all things consist.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    January 26, 2021 at 3:52 pm#869129
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Carmel,

    The God, who is the Son of God the Father, is the head of the church, not the Father. The Father did not shed his “own blood.” The Father did not become flesh.

    Your last post to me is written in a way that I asked you not to write when addressing me because it is not easily readable, imo, and I am not interested in deciphering lengthy, unclearly presented posts. Therefore, if you want me to address it, write it as I suggested in the recent past and don’t forget to keep it short and to the point.

    Blessings, LU

    January 26, 2021 at 3:58 pm#869130
    Lightenup
    Participant

    PC

    PC said:

    To be fair. God is the head of all. Yes Christ is the head, but Hod is the head of him. God is the Most High.

    The Most High Father is the only direct head of the Most High Son. The Most High Son is the only direct head of the church. The Most High Son and the Most High Father are ONE as a perfect unity, the Unity of YHVH.

    January 26, 2021 at 8:00 pm#869132
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes that sums up your doctrine. But you seem to be the only one who believes all this.

    January 27, 2021 at 7:15 am#869137
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8

    You said to LU: “Yes that sums up your doctrine. But you seem to be the only one who believes all this.”

    It seems that God the Father Himself believes that His Son is God and Yahweh.
    (Hebrews 1:10-12; Psalm 102:24-27)

    I just want to remind you that you still haven’t answered LU’s question/post.


    @Proclaimer

    This has been asked of you since January 9, 2021. Here is a reminder:

    PC,

    Who does the Father identify as

    laying the foundations of the earth in this passage:

    In Hebrews 1

    8But about the Son He says:

    “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever,

    and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

    9You have loved righteousness

    and hated wickedness;

    therefore God, Your God, has anointed You

    above Your companions with the oil of joy.”

    10And:

    “In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,

    and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

    11They will perish, but You remain;

    they will all wear out like a garment.

    12You will roll them up like a robe;

    like a garment they will be changed;

    but You remain the same,

    and Your years will never end.”

    LU

     

    January 27, 2021 at 7:37 am#869138
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8

    I forgot to add Hebrews 1:8-9

    It seems that God the Father Himself believes that His Son is God and Yahweh.
    (Hebrews 1:8-9; Hebrews 1:10-12; Psalm 102:24-27)

     

    January 27, 2021 at 9:07 am#869140
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Thanks Danny.

    I already have my answer  but it is going to take a bit of time to articulate it. And it has to be done right, otherwise you end up with more work answering weaknesses or misconceptions in the answer.

    Right now it is not priority. I have to first complete my hours for the week, before I can dedicate my time to Heaven Net.

    What I have done in the past is to add each so-called support scripture to my Trinity writing. Once it is done, I can answer people swiftly from then on, with a copy, paste, and edit to fit the conversation.

    So bear with me. I am not trying to avoid this. It’s the opposite. I can’t wait to get stuck into it.

    January 28, 2021 at 6:35 am#869161
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8

    OK, no problem. Take your time.

    January 31, 2021 at 8:50 am#869200
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @Danny Dabbs

    You said:

    It seems that God the Father Himself believes that His Son is God and Yahweh.
    (Hebrews 1:10-12; Psalm 102:24-27)

    You are absolutely right Danny! Christians everywhere see this also 😉

    I’m glad you are here,

    LU

     

    January 31, 2021 at 12:34 pm#869218
    carmel
    Participant

    HI LU,

    ME: I am going back to your belief when you said:

     

    YOU: He begat His Son before He created anything.

    ME:  Where in the bible one can read the above?

    Now hereunder you produced a scripture which according to you is evidence that the Father begat his son before He created anything.

    Col 1

    15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16for [y]by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

    Now I also asked you:

    ME: Have you got any suggestion when Jesus was begotten on earth in relation to the scriptures hereunder:

    Acts 13:33 This same God hath fulfilled to our children, raising up Jesus, as in the SECOND PSALM also is written: Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    Psalm 2 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

     

    YOU: This happened on the day that Jesus was begotten from the dead after his crucifixion.

     

    Thus both scriptures clearly confirmed that Jesus was begotten while He somehow, was on earth.

    Now hereunder are two more references regarding when Jesus was begotten, 

    Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels hath he said at any time, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    Hebrews 5:5 So Christ also did not glorify himself, that he might be made a high priest: but he that said unto him: Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    As you can read the above scriptures clearly assert that Jesus was begotten while He was a human being,

    LU, I’m afraid it’s not possible that the Father begat His Son before He created anything.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    January 31, 2021 at 6:12 pm#869221
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    Thank you for rewriting your post. That was much easier to follow.

    I see those references in Hebrews, Psalms 2, Acts 13, to the “begetting” as taking place from the dead. Hence, He is called “Firstborn from the dead.” Jesus, however is certainly identified as God’s Son already many times before he was begotten from the dead.

    Colossians 1:15 identifies Jesus as the “Firstborn of all creation” and then in verse 16 and beyond, the creation of all things is by that Firstborn. Obviously, he was born before he created all things.

    Many blessings, LU

    February 1, 2021 at 7:02 am#869225
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi LU,

     

    YOU: Thank you for rewriting your post. That was much easier to follow.

    I see those references in Hebrews, Psalms 2, Acts 13, to the “begetting” as taking place from the dead. Hence, He is called “Firstborn from the dead.” Jesus, however is certainly identified as God’s Son already many times before he was begotten from the dead.

    Colossians 1:15 identifies Jesus as the “Firstborn of all creation” and then in verse 16 and beyond, the creation of all things is by that Firstborn.

    Obviously, he was born before he created all things.

    I’m afraid there’s a misconception in the above.

    As Jesus was never born as a spirit! He was eternal with God! Jesus, “THE WORD” the Son of Man, the source of all physical, was emanated from God in the beginning. The big bang, which enlightened the entire infinite existence.

    From then on He as a spirit, eternal life, moved from creature to creature as the firstborn of every creature, but He Himself was never actually born both as a spirit and as a human. For instant God as the beginning of creation, created Lucifer, the light-bringer, and through Lucifer, He created and sustained all creatures by His spirit “THE WORD” as eternal life. Then through the process of creation always as a spirit, He fully loaded with all good and evil onto himself, conceived Anna, and created Mary His Mother without the least contamination, then through her, for the first time, He was born as a man.

    I repeat Jesus was not born before He created anything.

    Jesus existed as a spirit before he created anything.

     

    Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,

    the firstborn of every creature:

    AS A SPIRIT!

    16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. 17And he is before all, and by him all things consist.

    ALL THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO JESUS’PREXISTENCE AS A SPIRIT!

    18And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy:

    Again the above is also a reference to Jesus as a spirit, the firstborn from the dead!

    Jesus was slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world.Rev.13:8, in all souls spiritually dead, but on Jesus’death/glorification, Satan was removed from all souls, and he was not SLAIN anymore but alive precisely by Jesus Christ glorified

    Godman on earth! By whose Spirit, He resurrected His own dead body!

    Jesus simply GAVE His own dead body to the human race, all identical in

    ONE SPIRIT “THE WORD”

    well mentioned in the last supper!

    Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying:

    This is my body, which is   GIVEN for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. 

    Confirmed hereunder:

    19Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; 20And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.

    All God’s tasks are spiritual, the fact that Jesus destroyed His own flesh, simply to rule in His spirit. The fact that Adam lived in his flesh but he died in his spirit.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 20 posts - 21,701 through 21,720 (of 25,932 total)
123…1,0851,0861,087…1,2951,2961,297
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

 

CREATE NEW TOPIC
POPULAR TOPICS
ACTIVE TOPICS
SITE SEARCH
SUPPORT US
REGISTER

Recent Replies

ALL REPLIES →

© 1999 - 2024 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2023 - Heaven Net
 Log in with Facebook
or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

 Log in with Facebook
or

Create Account