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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • October 11, 2020 at 8:21 am#866736
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    calm down JODI
    don’t get excited like that.
    You just told me:

    You

    You are not getting my point at all.

     

    Jesus is still a man, and you are told that he as a man has the glory of the Father.

     

    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    I have answered you

    Not Only in the Glory of the Father but

    In His OWN Glory….

    Read Luk 9:26

    For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father’s, and of the holy angels.

    IN HIS OWN GLORY….ABD FATHER’S GLORY

    JODI WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THAT?

    ANSWERS ME PLEASE

     

    God bless

     

     

    October 11, 2020 at 8:43 am#866737
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    If Jesus were only a man, he could not judge the good and the bad …
    think a little
    Jesus is called THE WORD and he is God made flesh.
    If you don’t believe this part of the truth, you cannot understand the rest and you will continue to preach an outlaw Christ ….

    October 11, 2020 at 9:53 am#866738
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jodi, is this statement what you believe, yes, no, or don’t know.

    The messiah’s name is Jesus and also The Word of God. He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God.

    Yes or no.

    And I realise you will not an answer this directly because you are not honest enough. Can you see the deceit in your heart now?

    October 11, 2020 at 12:34 pm#866739
    carmel
    Participant

    mike, (1 John 1:1) “our hands have handled, of the Word of life”

    Hi Edj,

    1 John1:1 That which was from the beginning,(GOD ALL KNOWING: JESUS CHRIST IN THE FLESH)

    which we have heard, ( FIRST THROUGH SCRIPTURES and AFTER WITH OUR EARS; THE GOSPEL)

    which we have seen with our eyes,( THE SON OF MAN)

    which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, (AFTER THE SON OF MAN CAME BACK TO LIFE)

    of the word of life:

    YOU: Hi Mike,

    This verse is about John and other apostles talking part in writing “The Bible”.

    …it does not mean that they were touching Jesus’ flesh.
    You get so far off-tract when you don’t understand…

    “The Word” of God is God’s “HolySpirit”, not Jesus:

     

    ME: I’m afraid Mike is right, to accept the fact that John wrote in that manner and focussed on 

    THE PHYSICAL SENSES OF

    THE HUMAN FLESH SUBSTANCE!

    First and foremost THE WHOLE CAUSE OF OUR CREATION IS PRECISELY

    THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FLESH.

    CURSED!

    AS GOD WAS TOTALLY

    CONCERNED 

    FOR THE IMPERFECT

    Simply as Lucifer never accepted God’s process in order for Him

    TO BE PHYSICAL, TANGIBLE, AND VISIBLE FOR ALL TO SEE HIM SIMPLY   

    BECOME FLESH!

    GODMAN.

    Lucifer simply rebelled, AFTER HE WAS DENIED THE BEATIC VISION, while still within a probation period.

    Thus he opted to confront God as he felt that he

    THE ANGEL OF LIGHT by whom all the heavenly realms were ENLIGHTENED physically,  also AS A SPIRIT, and SPIRITS ABIDE and LIVE ONLY IN BODIES,  had every right to be

    LIKE THE MOST HIGH, and HIMSELF OWN

    THE PHYSICAL ENTITY OF THE FLESH, EVIL, MORTAL, FILTHY,  CORRUPTED AND SO ON IN SHORT

    AGAINST GOD, 

    ALL THAT GOD WAS NOT AND HAD NOT ACCREDITED IT ALL TO HIMSELF TILL GOD PROVES OTHERWISE.

    Thus God ALL KNOWING, established “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, JESUS, the only

    SPIRIT/MEDIATOR who could be the source of what

    GOD COULD NOT,

    SIMPLY TO SHIELD, TO PROTECT, TO SEPARATE and UNIFY IN THE SAME TIME ALL,

    BETWEEN GOD THE PERFECT and HIS CREATURES  SPECIFICALLY THE IMPERFECT.Hebrews 4:12

    CONSEQUENTLY, God attributed to Him! THE FULL POWER OF GOD, and 

    ETERNAL LIFE,  ENGRAFTED ONE SUBSTANCE AND IN THE SAME INSTANT DISTINCT, 

    FOR THE SAKE OF FREE WILL, IN THE BEGINNING LUCIFER PRECISELY IN

    LUCIFER’S HEART,

    THE HEART OF STONE TO BE. SIMPLY TO BE SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev. 13 :8 BY WHICH TASK, GOD WOULD NEVER ERADICATE THE LEAST OF HIS CREATURES NO MATTER HOW EVIL THEY BECOME UNLESS HE COMMIT

    A SUICIDE and ERADICATES HIMSELF IN

    “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE.

    OUR LORD TO BE.

    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil:

    I the Lord(JESUS) that do all these things.

    5And this is the declaration which we have heard from him, and declare unto you:

    That God is light,

    and in him there is no darkness.

    THUS THE BATTLE FOR THE FLESH BODY started on this planet, LUCIFER’S.

    Purposely created VERY GOOD both POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE, WHERE ORIGINALLY  OUR PLANET WAS

    PHYSICALLY IN TOTAL HARMONY WITH GOD.

    WITHOUT THE NEED OF THE SUN THE PHYSICAL LIGHT AND ITS PROCESS. 

     

    IT WAS VITAL FOR JOHN, A SPIRITUAL WRITER TO PROCLAIM

    GOD IN FLESH ON EARTH IN JESUS CHRIST.

    In those days GNOSTIC BELIEF was powerful. Well pinpointed out in

     

    2John1:7 For many seducers are gone out into the world,

    who confess not

    that Jesus Christ (pre-existed) is COME in the flesh:

    this is a seducer and an antichrist.

     

    1John5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that

    Jesus is the Son of God? 

    6This is he that came by water and blood, ( SOUL and FLESH), Jesus Christ:

    not by water(SPIRIT) only, but by water and blood.(HUMAN)

    And it is the Spirit which testifieth,

    that Christ is the truth. (MANIFESTED ON EARTH GOD MADE MAN)

     

    Jeremiah 32:26And the word of the Lord came to Jeremias, saying:

     27Behold I am the Lord (JESUS CHRIST)

    THE  God of all flesh: (John 17:2)

    shall anything be hard for me?

    1John4:1Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God:

    because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    2By this is the spirit of God known.

    Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ( PRE-EXISTED) is COME in the flesh, is of God:

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    October 11, 2020 at 3:25 pm#866740
    Ed J
    Participant

    mike, (1 John 1:1) “our hands have handled, of the Word of life”

    Hi Edj,

    1 John1:1 That which was from the beginning,(GOD ALL KNOWING: JESUS CHRIST IN THE FLESH)

    which we have heard, ( FIRST THROUGH SCRIPTURES and AFTER WITH OUR EARS; THE GOSPEL)

    which we have seen with our eyes,( THE SON OF MAN)

    which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, (AFTER THE SON OF MAN CAME BACK TO LIFE)
    of the word of life:

    Hi Carmel,

    Thanks for explaining how you understand the verse in light of what I said.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 11, 2020 at 5:30 pm#866741
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi Edj.

    I think you’re the only one here who thinks the Holy Spirit will come to Earth on a horse. But I guess you have the gematria to back that one up, so it must be legit. Lol.

    October 11, 2020 at 8:24 pm#866742
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    The Son of God IS from the biginning “the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,”

    THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER

    AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON( GOD’S PERSON)

    AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH

    THE GLORIOUS SON OF GOD WAS MADE FLESH…..

    October 11, 2020 at 8:26 pm#866743
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene
    Or Jodi
    Show me in the Bible when a word of God or words of God are fulfilled, that it is used THE EXPRESSION “BE MADE FLESH”.
    Thank’s

    October 11, 2020 at 10:34 pm#866744
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Berean. You will lucky to get a straight answer out of these guys. This is their tactic when they are stumped. I hope they can see their own deceit and I pray it leads them to repentance.

    October 11, 2020 at 10:36 pm#866745
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jodi, is this statement what you believe, yes, no, or don’t know.

    The messiah’s name is Jesus and also The Word of God. He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God.

    Yes or no.

    And I realise you will not an answer this directly because you are not honest enough. Can you see the deceit in your heart now?

    October 12, 2020 at 5:37 am#866746
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed: Hi Mike,

    This verse is about John and other apostles talking part in writing “The Bible”.

    …it does not mean that thay were touching Jesus flesh.
    You get so far off tract when you don’t understand…

    “The Word” of God is God’s “HolySpirit”, not Jesus:

    Hmm… so many places we could start.  We could go through 1 John 1 verse by verse and see if your “Bible” theory holds up.  Or you could explain how the Bible is riding a horse in Rev 19:13.   But let’s start with my last post to Jodi.  Do you agree that John the Baptizer made a statement about THE WORD in John 1:15, and then made the same statement about JESUS, THE LAMB OF GOD in 1:30?

     

     

     

    October 12, 2020 at 8:16 am#866747
    Ed J
    Participant

    Ed: Hi Mike,

    This verse is about John and other apostles talking part in writing “The Bible”.

    …it does not mean that thay were touching Jesus flesh.
    You get so far off tract when you don’t understand…

    “The Word” of God is God’s “HolySpirit”, not Jesus:

    Hmm… so many places we could start. We could go through 1 John 1 verse by verse and see if your “Bible” theory holds up. Or you could explain how the Bible is riding a horse in Rev 19:13.

    Hi Mike,

    It’s easily explained in one verse:

    “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
    the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)

    The Bible is more than “words”, “The Bible is Spirit.
    words are spirit – “The Word” is the (Holy)Spirit

    “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God
    (Like Jesus Apostles cited in 1John 1:1) spake as they were moved by the HolySpirit.” (2 Peter 1:21)

    October 12, 2020 at 8:33 am#866748
    Ed J
    Participant

    But let’s start with my last post to Jodi. Do you agree that John the Baptizer made a statement about THE WORD in John 1:15, and then made the same statement about JESUS, THE LAMB OF GOD in 1:30?

    Hi Mike,

    1) “14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
    (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
    full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he
    of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.” (John 1:14-15)

    1) “The Word” was made flesh when Jesus was baptized with God’s HolySpirit
    and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.

    You seem to be forgetting that they did not behold Jesus’ “glory” until AFTER he was baptized with God’s HolySpirit

    2) “29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,
    which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh
    a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.” (John 1:29-30)

    “And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
    33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,
    Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he
    which baptizeth with the Holy Spirit. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God    .” (John 1:32-34)

    John bore record that Jesus was “the Son of God” AFTER Jesus was baptized with God’s HolySpirit.
    fulfilling the prophecy in Luke 1:35 concerning him…

    “therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)

    John was the first (chronologically) to call Jesus “the Son of God” starting at Jesus baptism.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 12, 2020 at 8:43 am#866749
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    One reason I like discussing the bible with you is: You like me,
    listen to the points others make and address those points.

    Not everyone here at this site does that. They keep instead regurgitating
    the same old refuted tired arguments over and over. That being said:

    My goal is not to convince you that your view is wrong; but
    instead to explain my view – citing the relevant Scripture.
    The truth doesn’t need to be defended, only to be told.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 12, 2020 at 9:01 am#866750
    Berean
    Participant

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    GODHEAD= DIVINITY

     

    IN JESUS CHRIST DWELLETH ALL THE

    FULNESS  OF THE DIVINITY  BODILY

    IN JESUS CHRIST THERE IS
    THE DIVINITY UNITED TO HUMANITY
    EMMANUEL: GOD WITH US

    Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.(Mathew 1:23)

     

    God bless

    October 12, 2020 at 9:08 am#866752
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed…

    But let’s start with my last post to Jodi.  Do you agree that John the Baptizer made a statement about THE WORD in John 1:15, and then made the same statement about JESUS, THE LAMB OF GOD in 1:30?

    October 12, 2020 at 9:27 am#866753
    Ed J
    Participant

    Do you agree that John the Baptizer made a statement about THE WORD in John 1:15

    No

    October 12, 2020 at 9:28 am#866754
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Jodi and Gene,

    Matthew 3:9

    And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

    Do you guys believe this statement?  I’ll assume that you realize nothing is impossible for God, and that He could indeed raise up a son for Abraham out of a stone if He chose to.  So knowing this, let’s pretend that Jesus was raised up as a son of Abraham/Jesse/David FROM A STONE instead of born of Mary and the Holy Spirit.

    Would that change a single thing about Jesus’ deeds in the NT, or about the OT prophesies concerning him?  He still would have come from Bethlehem.  He still would have been foretold to rule forever from the throne of David.  He still would have been given the Spirit without measure.  Etc, etc, etc.

    So every single one of the scriptures Jodi posts to “prove” that Jesus was foretold to be a human being would still all apply.  Not one of them would need to be omitted or changed in any way.  But at the same time, this statement would ALSO be just as true:

    Jesus preexisted his humanity as a STONE.

    Are you understanding now what we’ve told you so many times?  YES, we ALL agree with EVERY ONE of your scriptures saying that Jesus would be/was a human being.  But if God raised him up as a child of Abraham/Jesse/David FROM A STONE, then that blue statement above would be equally true – and so it could be said that Jesus was once a man AND Jesus was once a stone.  Both would be EQUALLY true statements.

    Can you guys agree to that?  Can you understand that, if this was the case, there would be no amount of scriptures you could post saying Jesus was a man that would ever change the fact that first existed as a stone?

    Likewise, there is no amount of scriptures you can post saying Jesus existed as a human that will ever change the scriptural fact that he first existed (and does again) as a spirit entity in heaven alongside his and our God, YHVH.

    October 12, 2020 at 9:32 am#866755
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Mike, OK my turn:

    “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
    the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)

    Do you agree that since John 6:63 says words are spirit, therefore “The Word” is Spirit?

    “Yes” or “No” ?

    October 12, 2020 at 9:39 am#866756
    Ed J
    Participant

    Jesus preexisted his humanity as a STONE.

    Hi Mike,

    “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that
    spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.” (1 Cor 10:4)

    “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
    This is the LORD’s doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.” (Psalms 118:22-23)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

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