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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • October 8, 2020 at 9:20 pm#866673
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    … and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.

    But you say the Spirit is the Word of God?

    October 8, 2020 at 10:03 pm#866674
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    When you can’t prove it, break out the gematria. You can always manipulate numbers and make something add up the way you want.

    October 9, 2020 at 1:40 am#866675
    Ed J
    Participant

    When you can’t prove it, break out the gematria. You can always manipulate numbers and make something add up the way you want.

    Ha ha haa ha ha

    October 9, 2020 at 1:51 am#866676
    Ed J
    Participant

    … and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.

    But you say the Spirit is the Word of God?

    Hi T8,

    Good observation!

    Now look carefully at this verse…

    “And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations” (Rev 19:15)

    And you affirm: “The Sword of the Spirit” is “The Word” (of God).

    So “The Word” has “The Word” coming out of his mouth.
    (the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God)

    Now you got it!

    That which is Spirit is Spirit,
    and that which is flesh is flesh.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 9, 2020 at 2:32 am#866679
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj

    I ABSOLUTELY NOT believe WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

    Hi Berean,

    You do not have to; my job is not to convince people of “The Truth”.
    My job is: to present the truth in a way that’s it’s completely understood.
    The truth will grow when it grows, I’m merely here to plant the seed of truth.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 9, 2020 at 3:06 am#866680
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer…. Go look at my post 866654,  do you see there where I did answer him, the answer is “NO” , Jesus “himself” is not GOD THE Fathers words, I even gave him a quote where JESUS SAID, “the words I am telling you are “NOT” my word,  but the words of him who sent me”, ,  so the “only way” , the scripture that say “and the word became flesh” COULD BE APPLIED IS BY SAYING THAT GOD’S WORD came “true”,  is was the “flesh” man Jesus. Exactly what Jodi and I have been saying all along , and so is Edj, even though he is not smart enough to see it yet evedently. 

    Proclaimer, common sense should tell you “no “WORD”  can actually be flesh”,  that is basic common sense 101. So the word of God , who prophesied throw the prophets about Jesus, came into being , it was the “flesh man” Jesus. can’t you remember that Jesus himself showed his deciples who he was, by opening their minds to the written words of God spoken through of the prophets, that spoke of him?

    Quite trying to make me out to be dishonest, if anyone here is being dishonest it is you, not me. I honestly believe what I am saying is true, so please stop lying about me OK?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    October 9, 2020 at 3:30 am#866681
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj……the word of God came to be , it was , the flesh man Jesus,  who God the Father though the ANOINTING HOLY SPIRIT CAME TO DWELL IN.

    “believe you not that the Father is “IN” ME., if you don’t, believe my words , then believe in the miracles,  that you might know the Father is “IN” ME. 

    And again Paul shows us we (who have tbe Spirit of God) are exactly the  same as Jesus, “know you not that your “body” is the temple of the “LIVING GOD? ” 

    God the Father speaking directly through the mouth of Jesus, said this,  destory this “temple” and in three days I (God) , Shall raise it up. 

    Jesus could do nothing of himself,  exactly as we can do nothing of ourselves,   he said  this,  “the son of man can do “NOTHING” of himself, the Father who is “IN” him “HE” does the works.  

    GOD IS SPIRIT AND CAN INDWELL US ALL .  “Now If the “Spirit” of him that raised Jesus from the “DEAD” dwell “IN” YOU, he that raised Christ Jesus from the dead shall “ALSO”,  quicken your “mortal” (dead) body”. 

    I do not seperate Jesus’ existence from my existence, we are both , SONS OF MAN, AND through the Anointing Spirit (seed of God) SONS OF GOD,  we are “exactly the same before our heavenly Father, who is my God and his God , his Father and my Father.  We are “exactly the same before GOD OUR FATHER, IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, even though he has a higher position then me in the comming kingdom . We still are brothers in the house hold of God forever. 

    I do not push Jesus away from my human idenity with him,  like all those servants of Satan do here and in the apostate church’s.  Always  trying to make Jesus appear different then his human brothers and sisters.  Not understanding that MAN IS THE “CROWN JEWEL ” of the creation of GOD. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    October 9, 2020 at 5:35 am#866682
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj……the word of God came to be , it was , the flesh man Jesus, who God the Father though the ANOINTING HOLY SPIRIT CAME TO DWELL IN.

    Hi Gene,

    “The Word” became flesh at the Jordan river when Jesus was baptized.

    Do you agree or disagree?

    October 9, 2020 at 6:01 am#866683
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Mike,

    You read in the OT over 250 times “THE WORD OF THE LORD” or “THE WORD OF GOD”.

    Jesus as well as others we read in the NT many times say “THE WORD”, and “THE WORD OF GOD”.

    The fact of the matter is, our LORD gave to the prophets in the OT many of His WORDS, which Jesus himself as well as apostles quote.

    The WORD OF THE LORD came to several both in the OT and NT, declaring many things, commandments, prophecy, wisdom, Good News, etc..

    Given all THE WORDS that YHVH gave when one reads “THE WORD” one should ask themselves what specific WORD of YHVH is being referenced, as it doesn’t mean the same thing every time. 

    EXAMPLE,

     1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was WITH the Father and has appeared to us.

    Jesus became the Word of Life that was with YHVH from the beginning, the Word of eternal life that He had promised even before the world was. Jesus became the Word of Life made true in the flesh when he was resurrected a firstborn of many brethren, having been raised in glory, power, made incorruptible.  Jesus appeared to many, they saw him with their eyes and handled him, they were a witness to this specific WORD of YHVH having been made true in Jesus.

    THE WORD in 1 John 1, is the WORD OF THE LORD of eternal life made true in Jesus.

    THE WORD below is the WORD OF THE LORD spoken by Isaiah made true in Jesus. 

    Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    Jesus himself quotes THE WORD OF THE LORD that had been spoken by Isaiah as being made true in him, 

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    THE WORD– The LORD would bring forth Eternal Life.

    and

    THE WORD– The LORD would anoint a son of Jesse and David and send him to be a savior.

    BOTH of these examples of THE WORD were with YHVH in the beginning, promises to be fulfilled. 

    October 9, 2020 at 7:36 am#866684
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    When I see the “THE WORD” written in scripture it does not represent the same thing every time. 

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    The WORD is GOD, and was WITH GOD, and was in the beginning.

    Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    John 6:63 The Spirit gives life;

    Romans 8:10…the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

    Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

    God is LIFE through His Spirit, that Spirit gave Jesus life. 

    The WORD is GOD, and was WITH GOD, and was in the beginning.

    Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

    From the beginning the Word of life was promised, eternal life was with the Father from the beginning. 

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    Mike, THE WORD in John 1:1 is THE WORD OF LIFE, which God IS for God’s Spirit gives LIFE.

    If you say The Word represents a pre-existing Jesus and we are told that The Word was God, then you are telling me that Jesus must be God.

     

    October 9, 2020 at 8:00 am#866685
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    John 2: 2 He (houtos) was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 

    John 1:2 The same (houotos) was in the beginning with God.

    Houtos – this 157, these 59, he 31, the same 28, this man 25, she 12, they 10, miscellaneous 34

    Dia, through
    the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
    by reason of
    on account of

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    THESE, The Word of Life and The Word of a man to come who would fulfill the Word of Life, were in the beginning with God.

    or 

    He was in the beginning with God.

    Either way, we know that The Word of Life and “he” who would come and fulfill the Word of Life, were both God’s Word from the beginning. 

    John 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 

    Mike, Isaiah 46 tells you that a man would come and fulfill God’s Word of Life, and that God would bring near His righteousness,

    Isaiah also says, 

    Isaiah 42:1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations….6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another..

    John 6:63 The Spirit gives life;

    Romans 8:10…the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

    John 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 

    Mike,

    John 1 is about the anointing of Jesus!!

    The Spirit came to abode upon him, the Spirit that is Life because of righteousness, where God held his hand and kept him for him to fulfill God’s covenant (fulfill The Word of Life/Eternal Life) where he would be for a LIGHT. 

    Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,

    The Good News is that the Spirit came upon Jesus, and it brought forth unto him Life because of righteousness, he could not be held to the penalty of death because he did obey all that God directed him to do. God raised him up and once again gave him as was according to a promise, the Spirit. God gave him the Spirit that gives life because it causes righteousness.

    We read this Jesus was raised a firstborn of many, we read that on that day God begat him, (he received as was promised the Holy Spirit), which is why we also read, 

    Ezekiel 26:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

     

    October 9, 2020 at 8:28 am#866686
    Berean
    Participant

    Edj

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:(2Tim.3:16)

    THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT IS ALSO

    GEMATRIA  Edj ????

    October 9, 2020 at 8:34 am#866687
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    Or Jodi

    Show me in the Bible when a word of God or words of God are fulfilled, that it is used THE EXPRESSION “BE MADE FLESH”.

    Thank’s

    October 9, 2020 at 8:56 am#866688
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached BEFORE HIS COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

    There was NO SAVIOR SENT until Jesus of Nazareth, the son of David, was begotten with God’s Spirit not by measure, and by such he was in the FORM of God. 

    WHY Jesus says,

    44 Jesus cried and said,He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles….5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,

    It’s like it’s impossible for you to put simple two and two together. 

    Jesus the only mortal man to receive God’s Spirit without measure where he is THEN SENT out into the world to be a savior,  – thus is he who is God’s only begotten Son whom God sent to be our savior. 

    Jesus the only mortal man to receive the Spirit without measure SENT to speak God’s words and perform God’s work, who said seeing him was seeing God, -thus is he who was in the form of God. 

     

    October 9, 2020 at 9:10 am#866689
    Berean
    Participant

    Edj

    In Révélation 19

    The person on the white horse comes to judge and fight the nations with justice.

    Tell me to whom God the Father has entrusted this JOB?
    The Son of man (JESUS CHRIST) ???
    THE HOLY SPIRIT ???

    October 9, 2020 at 9:12 am#866690
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Edj….I have told you over and over , JESUS HIMSELF IS “NOT”,  God the Fathers word

    Houston, we have a problem. We know that his name is The Word of God, so it stands to reason that he is The Word of God. So let’s apply Gene’s logic to another verse containing another name. I will copy his post and edit accordingly.

    And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS.

    Edj….I have told you over and over, he is not Jesus. 

    October 9, 2020 at 9:14 am#866691
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    YOU:

    You still haven’t figured it out Jodi.

    Believing that God made all things through the Son and that he is now with God in the glory he had before the cosmos, doesn’t negate that he came as a man and fulfilled prophecy.

    This is all you have, and with your sleight of hand you want to pit one set of scriptures against another.

    We are onto to your deception. Give up. Try something else. You’re fooling no one except Gene.

    ME: 

    It is you that has not figured it out, lol!

    You refuse to address over and over again certain passages and the point I give concerning them, you just don’t acknowledge at all.

    But we will never be able to agree on anything with your sleight of hand and deception. 

    You have to change “I WILL BE HIS FATHER” into “I ALREADY AM”, and “I WILL SETTLE HIM INTO MY HOUSE” into “HE IS ALREADY SETTLED”, all the while accepting “I WILL ESTABLISH HIS THRONE”.

    You have to change “the Spirit of the LORD will rest on him” and “I will put my Spirit on him” which is said to be an anointing, into “he is already the anointed”.

     

     

     

    October 9, 2020 at 9:17 am#866692
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Also see how this cunning fox changes the term to make his point look more valid.

    Edj….I have told you over and over , JESUS HIMSELF IS “NOT”,  God the Fathers word

    If he was honest, he should have put it this way:

    Edj….I have told you over and over , JESUS HIMSELF IS “NOT”,  The Word of God.

    This is what we are actually debating. He worded it differently because he knows it is comes across as condemning himself to deny this as it is written.

    October 9, 2020 at 9:21 am#866693
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Scripture says his name is Jesus, so he is Jesus. Scripture says he is the Word of God, so he is the Word of God. Any reasonable and honest person can see that.

    What is the point in being a Christian if you cannot be honest. You cannot be a deceitful lying Christian can you. No. A wolf in sheep’s clothing is what a deceitful Christian is.

    Gene. You should be ashamed of your behaviour. Repent and be truthful. God can take our weaknesses and turn them into strengths. Surrender to Him this day.  This is good advice. Please do not harden your heart.

    October 9, 2020 at 9:23 am#866694
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    Please be kind consider
    that Jesus came from heaven where he was with the Father, that is what the Bible teaches

    for I came down from heaven to do not my will but the will of him who sent me.

    6:39 And it is the will of him that sent me, that I lose nothing of all that he hath given me, but that I should raise him up at the last day.

    6:40 It is my Father’s will, that whosoever seeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    6:41 And the Jews murmured concerning him, because he said, I am the bread which came down out of heaven.

    6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I am come down out of heaven?

    6:43 Jesus answered and said unto them, Whisper not among yourselves.

    6:44 No man can come unto me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

     

    God bless

     

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