Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

This topic has 25,932 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 4 hours, 54 minutes ago by DesireTruth.

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October 7, 2020 at 9:09 am#866645
Ed J
Participant
Hi Berean,
Google says it is short for nonplayer character.
https://www.google.com/search?bih=689&biw=1227&hl=en&sxsrf=ALeKk02Zdr1mR7LcanfRetFvwtKLOePkhg%3A1601982852386&ei=hFF8X_uIF8uGsQXYxqZA&q=npc+definition&oq=NPC++definition&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjICCAAyBAgAEB4yBggAEAUQHjIGCAAQBRAeMgYIABAIEB46BAgAEEdQzCZYzCZg0j1oAHACeACAAXCIAXCSAQMwLjGYAQCgAQKgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEIwAEB&sclient=psy-ab
October 7, 2020 at 9:16 am#866646
Berean
Participant
Someone who doesn’t play the game ?
October 7, 2020 at 11:55 am#866647
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
YOU: just as he said, “the words I am telling you are “NOT” my words, but the words of him that sent me.
Did YOU ever think and reflect regarding what you are emphatically saying ALL THE TIME, that
JESUS’WORDS ARE NOT JESUS’ BUT THE FATHER’S?
YOU ALSO CONCLUDED AND IMPLYING THAT SINCE JESUS’ WORDS ARE THE ORIGIN OF THE FATHER,
JESUS IS NOT “THE WORD” OF GOD;
WHICH IS A PURE LIE, SIMPLY AS IT IS
THE FACT THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY PHYSICAL SOURCE OF THE FATHER’S GENUINE WORDS AND WORKS THAT MAKE
JESUS PRECISELY
“THE WORD” OF GOD ITSELF.
LET’S READ SCRIPTURE Gene,
John12:47 And if any man hear
MY WORDS, (PLURAL, Jesus confirms that they are HIS WORDS)
and keep them not, I do not judge him: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
I REPEAT: In the above Jesus confirms that
THE WORDS ARE HIS, Gene?
48He that despiseth me, and receiveth not
MY WORDS, (PLURAL AGAIN)
hath one that judgeth him; (ATTENTION GENE!)
“THE WORD” (SINGULAR)
that I have spoken,( NOT THE FATHER, WHY?)
the same shall judge him in
THE LAST DAY.
OK Gene, IN THE ABOVE JESUS, SIMPLY MADE IT CLEAR THAT
HE IS “THE WORD” ITSELF and
HE “THE WORD” WILL JUDGE HUMANITY, IN
RELATION TO JESUS’ SPOKEN WORDS!
attention:
49For I have not spoken of myself;
but the Father who sent me,
he gave me commandment what I should say, and what I should speak.
(OK GENE, JESUS PRE-EXISTED AS A SPIRIT ETERNALLY IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, John 1:18, AND BEFORE HE LEFT THE FATHER, BEFORE THE FIRST EVER
WORD OF GOD WAS PRONOUNCED,
“LET THERE BE LIGHT”
THE FATHER FURNISHED JESUS WITH ALL WHAT HE HAD TO SAY AND SPEAK.
OK? THE WORDS ARE DEFINITELY THE FATHER’S ORIGIN, BUT FOR SURE
THEY ARE ALSO, JESUS OWN WORDS ON EARTH, AS A HUMAN!
SINCE HE WAS THE ONLY UNIQUE
ONE OF A KIND, SENT BY THE FATHER BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
ALL THE PROPHETS BEFORE JESUS WERE NOT SENT FROM THE FATHER, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JOHN, WHO WAS MORE THAN A PROPHET, BUT
CHOSEN ON EARTH, AND MADE CLEAN BEFORE EVEN WENT AND PROPHESIED. THE GENUINE REASON THAT
JESUS IS “THE WORD” OF GOD ITSELF.
IT IS HIS GENUINE TITLE PURPOSELY ESTABLISHED BY GOD,
ETERNAL LIFE
IN ORDER TO TALK FROM WITHIN ALL CREATURES HEART FROM EVERY CONCEPTION, AS
THE LIGHT OF MEN
John1:9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth EVERY MAN(FROM ADAM) that cometh into this world.
ALSO ASSERTED BY PAUL IN
GALATIANS 1:15 But when it pleased him, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16To reveal his Son in me,
that I might preach him among the Gentiles, immediately I condescended not to flesh and blood.
THE FATHER GENE COULD NOT MANIFEST HIMSELF AND SPEAK DIRECTLY TO HUMANITY AS HE WOULD HAVE
DESTROYED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.
50And I know that his commandment ( HIS WORD, JESUS THE SON OF MAN)
is life everlasting.
The things therefore
that I speak, ( ARE TRUE, as everything Jesus does is consistent with the nature of God.)
even as the Father said unto me,
so do I speak. ( simply equivalently as the father himself)
John14:8 Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him:
Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip,
he that seeth me seeth the Father also.( IN FLESH)
How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 10Do you not believe,
that I am in the Father,(SPIRIT) and the Father in me?(FLESH)
The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. ( NOT MADE UP, TRUE) But the Father who
abideth in me,(ETERNALLY)
he doth the works. 11Believe you not that
I am in the Father, and the Father in me? (ETERNALLY)
12Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake.
(ONLY ACHIEVED BY JESUS THE GENUINE UNIQUE ABODE AND EMBODIMENT OF GOD THE FATHER BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ

October 7, 2020 at 1:30 pm#866648
Proclaimer
Participant
NPC
Not every character you meet in a game or virtual world has a real person with a mind behind it. Some are unthinking automatons with no mind of their own. Some people view Jesus this way. He was a shell or avatar that was controlled by the Father. Not a person himself and has no words or thoughts himself. But is controlled by the AI or game master so to speak.
But Jesus was a real person. He chose to speak the Father’s words and do what he saw the Father doing. He very much had his own mind, words, thoughts, and actions. Nick appeared to have this view from the posts that I read from him and Gene seems to think we are all NPCs because he believes there is no such thing as free will.
I think some of the false doctrine that some spout here comes from this false understanding.
October 8, 2020 at 2:27 am#866652
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel…..I am not saying or “implying”, that Jesus is the source of GOD’S WORDS, God the Father is the scource of his own words, where did you ever get that idea I was implying anything else from?
What I am saying is this, God spoke in times past “through” the prophets, has in these ladder days spoke to us “through” a Son, Jesus the Christ. GOD WAS “IN” JESUS, VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND WAS SPEAKING TO US “THROUGH” “THE “MAN” JESUS, just as God the Father spoke “through” the PROPHETS before him? NO “DIFFERENCE”. God and his word are one and the same thing, God was not the prophets he spoke through, nor was Jesus the God that spoke through him either.
Why can’t you people understand that?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

October 8, 2020 at 2:45 am#866653
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Proclaimer…..I realize you believe your own so-called ” freewill ” choices is what saves you, and you hate, the idea that God the Father has complete control over “all” his creation, just as the “potter” has power over the clay, to make it anyway he choses to either good or evil . I realize that by believing you are a “freewiller” makes you believe you are a GOD UNTO YOURSELF, and can do whatever you want, because you think you are a “freewiller” , but that’s , your so-called, carnel “freewill” “opinion”, not what scripture says. Man without God’s “will”, being done “in” him is incapable of making the right choices all the time, and without God’s direction “will always” , fail in the end. Remember what it say’s, “there is a way, that “seems” right unto a man, but the end thereof is sin and death”.
Case in point, the garden of eden, and the millennial reign of Jesus and the Saint’s, for those who have eyes to see.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
October 8, 2020 at 3:33 am#866654
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Edj….I have told you over and over , JESUS HIMSELF IS “NOT”, God the Fathers word so from the standpoint of your question the answer is “NO” , now with that being said, please try to follow this OK?, From the sense of what Jodi and I also say! Jesus “is” the “fulfillment” of God the Fathers words, the words he spoke through the Prophets, like Moses and others. Those prophetic words became or came to be, fulfilled as, the “flesh” man Jesus. Do you now get it? s that is what is meant by “and the word became flesh” what is meant there is the word of God became “fulfilled” as the “flesh man Jesus”. But none of that actually made Jesus himself GOD’S OWN WORDS.
Why do you think I quote over and over here what Jesus said , “the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him who sent me”?
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

October 8, 2020 at 7:58 am#866655
emeth
Participant
Hold firmly to the truth, encourage by sound doctrine.
The first thing that must be considered in John 1:1 is that John did not speak English, the Text handed down to us is in Greek.
John 1:1; En arché én ho lógos kaí ho lógos én prós tón theón kaí theós én ho lógos.
Interestingly, the Greek term ‘pros‘, has the additional meanings of, (within) and (in reference to), NT:4314; a marker of that which is compared to something else – ‘with, within, in comparison with, to be compared to, in reference to. (Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain)
Secondly, we need to fully consider the history of the Greek term ‘logos’ and how it was understood in John’s day.
Thirdly, we must consider the Greek grammar in the verses that have been cited.
In “theós én ho lógos”, ‘theos‘ is a Noun, Masculine, Singular, Nominative and ‘en‘, is a Verb, 3rd Person Singular, Imperfect, Active, Indicative.
And God was the logos.

October 8, 2020 at 8:20 am#866656
Berean
Participant
Gene
You don’t Say the TRUTH about WHO IS JESUS
Show me in the Bible when a word of God or words of God are fulfilled, that it is used THE EXPRESSION “BE MADE FLESH”.

October 8, 2020 at 9:06 am#866657
Proclaimer
Participant
Gene. Ed J asked you a fair question. If you cannot answer it then your doctrine is useless. You cannot defend it. And your not honest enough to admit it by answering a basic question. Where is your integrity?
Honor Christ and let him be the Lord of your life. Always be ready to give an answer when someone asks you about your hope.
Your lack of integrity doesn’t bode well for your teaching does it?
October 8, 2020 at 9:09 am#866658
Proclaimer
Participant
The last instance of logos has no definite article. That has implications too.
October 8, 2020 at 9:22 am#866660
Berean
Participant

Hi emeth
the word “theos” can also be considered as an adjective
like for:
to be a human (noun) and to be human (adjective)
The Son of God(the Word) was God but he was not the God (the Father)
God bless
October 8, 2020 at 9:25 am#866661
Proclaimer
Participant
@emeth
Jesus said, ‘ye are theos’. Was he saying that some humans were God / YHWH?
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in Law, ‘I have said you are gods.
October 8, 2020 at 9:32 am#866662
Proclaimer
Participant
To support what you said Berean.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
October 8, 2020 at 9:51 am#866663
Berean
Participant
Amen
October 8, 2020 at 6:43 pm#866668
Ed J
Participant
Jodi’s words
“Jesus’ name is the word of God” (post #866604)
Hi Gene,
“is Jesus name the word of God?”
“Yes” or “No”
Jodi says “Yes”
I say “No”
What say you?
A “Yes, Jesus is name the word of God”
or
B “No, Jesus is name NOT the word of God”
Gene said:
the answer is “NO”
Hi Gene,
Then you disagree with Jodi and agree with me… Good!
Jodi:
“Jesus is name the word of God”
I know it pains you dearly to disagree with Jodi,
but I’m glad you have “Free Will” to disagree with her!
Ed and Gene:
“No, Jesus is name NOT the word of God”
____________
God bless
Ed J
October 8, 2020 at 7:01 pm#866669
Ed J
Participant
Do you now get it? s that is what is meant by “and the word became flesh” what is meant there is the word of God became “fulfilled” as the “flesh man Jesus”. But none of that actually made Jesus himself GOD’S OWN WORDS.
Hi Gene, no no no
You got this part wrong too…
“The Word” became flesh when Jesus was baptized with God’s HolySpirit
Holy Spirit is “The Word”
Look at this verse Gene:
“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.” (Luke 8:11)
The Son of Man plants the seed… he doesn’t plant his name. No No No
He instead plants God’s HolySpirit in us which grows and multiplies:
“The Word” (the HolySpirit) of God grew and multiplied (Acts 12:24)
October 8, 2020 at 7:03 pm#866670
Ed J
Participant
So mightily grew “The Word” (the HolySpirit) of God and prevailed. (Acts 19:20)
It is God’s HolySpirit that rules and prevails in the midst of his enemies
I hope you and others finally get this now!
October 8, 2020 at 7:15 pm#866671
Ed J
Participant
Hold firmly to the truth, encourage by sound doctrine.
The first thing that must be considered in John 1:1 is that John did not speak English, the Text handed down to us is in Greek.
John 1:1; En arché én ho lógos kaí ho lógos én prós tón theón kaí theós én ho lógos.

@emeth
ho lógos =91
Spirit =91
Ho Logos is God’s HolySpirit, not Jesus
October 8, 2020 at 8:00 pm#866672
Berean
Participant
Edj
You are wrong and I ABSOLUTELY NOT believe WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
IT IS THE SON OF GOD WHO IS CALLED “THE WORD”
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WHICH IS A PURE LIE, SIMPLY AS IT IS

“THE WORD” OF GOD ITSELF.

MY WORDS, (PLURAL, Jesus confirms that they are HIS WORDS)

THE WORDS ARE HIS, Gene?

MY WORDS, (PLURAL AGAIN)

“THE WORD” (SINGULAR)

that I have spoken,( NOT THE FATHER, WHY?)

the same shall judge him in

THE LAST DAY.

HE IS “THE WORD” ITSELF and

HE “THE WORD” WILL JUDGE HUMANITY, IN

RELATION TO JESUS’ SPOKEN WORDS!

attention:

but the Father who sent me,

he gave me commandment what I should say, and what I should speak.

“LET THERE BE LIGHT”

JESUS IS “THE WORD” OF GOD ITSELF.

IT IS HIS GENUINE TITLE PURPOSELY ESTABLISHED BY GOD,

ETERNAL LIFE

IN ORDER TO TALK FROM WITHIN ALL CREATURES HEART FROM EVERY CONCEPTION, AS

THE LIGHT OF MEN

16To reveal his Son in me,

DESTROYED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.

is life everlasting.

that I speak, ( ARE TRUE, as everything Jesus does is consistent with the nature of God.)

so do I speak. ( simply equivalently as the father himself)

he that seeth me seeth the Father also.( IN FLESH)

that I am in the Father,(SPIRIT) and the Father in me?(FLESH)

I am in the Father, and the Father in me? (ETERNALLY)

NPC

Jodi says “Yes”I say “No”What say you?

Jodi:“Jesus is name the word of God”

Ed and Gene:“No, Jesus is name NOT the word of God”

“The Word” became flesh when Jesus was baptized with God’s HolySpirit

Holy Spirit is “The Word”

So mightily grew “The Word” (the HolySpirit) of God and prevailed. (Acts 19:20)

It is God’s HolySpirit that rules and prevails in the midst of his enemies

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Jodi says “Yes”
I say “No”
What say you?

Jodi:
“Jesus is name the word of God”

Ed and Gene:
“No, Jesus is name NOT the word of God”