Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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October 3, 2020 at 6:41 am#866527
Berean
Participant
Jodi
John 1 speak of the Son of God AND of God His Father WHO were together in the biginning.
THIS the thruth Jodi , I don’t lie Before God
I wouldn’t tell you this if it wasn’t true.

October 3, 2020 at 6:45 am#866528
Berean
Participant
It is the beautiful and simple truth to receive in his heart …
Open your heart Jodi
It’s the truth
October 3, 2020 at 6:57 am#866529
Berean
Participant
It’s not the Trinity’s doctrine.
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
October 3, 2020 at 1:57 pm#866530
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
You telling me so, doesn’t work for me. Me seeing you time and time again not responding to scriptures and my direct points to what they do and do not teach, just avoiding, doesn’t help you appear to be at all credible.
You brought up 2 Corinthians 8:9 I respond to it applying other passages and no actual response back from you.
You bring up divinity and I pull up actual scriptures that discuss it and apply those passages to others, you give back no actual response. There is actually no debate going on here, it’s pathetic.
Quote what I say and then give me a direct passage that makes what I said untrue. Is that really too much to ask, is it too difficult to do?
October 3, 2020 at 1:59 pm#866531
Jodi
Participant
Berean, let’s talk about THE WORD, shall we? Is that possible?
Isaiah 1:10 Hear THE WORD of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
Isaiah 2:3 Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, THE WORD of the LORD from Jerusalem.
THE WORD here represents the law or instruction of God, it doesn’t represent a pre-existing Son of God.
October 3, 2020 at 2:22 pm#866532
Jodi
Participant
Berean, let’s talk about THE WORD, shall we? Is that possible?
Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
THE WORD here represents eternal life, not a pre-existing Son of God.
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was WITH the Father and has appeared to us.
THE WORD here is eternal life, which was WITH the Father from the beginning, even before time began.
Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’ 11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do. 12 Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are now far from my righteousness. 13 I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel.
THE WORD here is salvation and righteousness, eternal life.
THE WORD here is a man would come and fulfill this purpose.
THE WORD here is that both eternal life and a man who would come and fulfill it, was THE WORD made known FROM THE BEGINNING.
Berean, to try and tell me that because Jesus is named THE WORD OF GOD, that makes THE WORD in John 1:1 a Son of God who exists as God’s utterance since the beginning of time, is not only just totally nonsensical, but it is with all void of what scriptures teach.
1 John 1 tells you directly what the WORD that was WITH GOD from the beginning IS.
THE WORD ETERNAL LIFE was WITH GOD from the beginning.
Isaiah 46 tells you specifically that with God from the beginning was THE WORD that a man who would come to fulfill His purpose.
Berean, John 1 is the chapter that speaks of Jesus’s anointing, him being filled with grace and truth as the Spirit descended upon him. SUCH IS God’s WORD from Isaiah 11, 42, and 61 made true in the flesh, where the people then beheld his glory, the very glory that God had promised to no other in Isaiah 42. This anointed man was sent out for to be a light, also just as Isaiah 42 said. He was despised and rejected by his own, just as Isaiah 53 had prophesied.
John 1 is about the man of God’s WORD who would come that God declared from the beginning.
John 1 is about the Son of Man, the son of Jesse, who was promised to be anointed and sent out into the world, not being of the world but sent from heaven/directly sent from God, for to be a savior through preaching God’s word and setting us at liberty from our sins. Anointed and sent to be made our source for eternal salvation fulfilling God’s purpose for His creation. NOW THINK about that, use your REASONING SKILLS BEREAN, what does such DIRECTLY IMPLY?
I will tell you, but really it should be obvious if you actually THINK ON GOD’S WORD absorbing it, not letting it go in one ear and out the other.
Without this man who comes to fulfill God’s purpose, nothing would have been made that was made, because from the beginning it was to be this son of Jesse to fulfill the purpose of why God created all things in the first place. All things weren’t just created by reason of him but also for him. WHO RECEIVES the WORKS of all that God created, WHO IS EXALTED to sit at God’s right hand, WHO is returning in the glory of the Father, WHO is going to sit on an eternal throne according to the flesh being a king of kings and a lord of lords, WHO is going to judge the world and put all enemies under foot, WHO is going to cause all nations to be blessed? The Son of Abraham, Jesse, and David, that is WHO, who is God’s Son according to the Spirit by his resurrection from the dead. The first begotten of the dead of many brethren WHO was raised receiving the promised Holy Spirit, wherein righteousness and eternal life is.
MOREOVER John 1 is about Jesus being recognized as the Son of God, the king of Israel, a direct reference to 1 Chronicles 17, where FIRST you have a son of David, and THEN God becomes a Father to him, promising that He WILL also never take His mercy away from him, promising He WILL also settle him in His house, promising He WILL also give him an eternal throne.

October 3, 2020 at 5:25 pm#866533
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
Jesus’s name means YHVH is salvation.
YHVH’s WORD promised from the beginning was salvation unto Eternal Life.
YHVH’s WORD promised from the beginning was the shedding of Jesus’s blood for him to be made our source for eternal salvation.
So it couldn’t be more perfect for Jesus to be given another name to be called that fits perfectly with his given name, The Word of God.
Yes, he is the Word of God.
You are making the case that he is the Word of God.
This topic is done now.
October 3, 2020 at 8:26 pm#866534
Berean
Participant
Yes Jésus in John 1 IS CALLED “THE WORD” AND in Révélation 19 “THE WORD OF GOD”
JESUS (THE WORD) WAS WITH GOD AND WAS GOD…
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

October 4, 2020 at 4:04 am#866548
GeneBalthrop
Participant
To all…..John 1 was talking about the beginning of “all” things , as recorded in Genesis 1 : 1-31,shows , GOD “SPOKE” , himself, 17 times. showing he along created everything on this earth that was created. That was the beginning John was talking about, had nothing to do with Jesus at all. JESUS was not even in existence in the “beginning” .
God’s “words” “ARE” HIM , just as your words are you, not one ounce of difference.  So you speak so you are, your own words describe who you are and what you are, just as God’s words describe who he is and what he is.
You word are also with you and are You, YOU CANNOT SEPERATE yourself from your words, Nether can GOD SEPERATE HIS WORDS FROM HIMSELF EITHER.
That is exactly why it says,  “in the beginning (of creation) was the word and the word was with God , and the word was GOD” , YOU CANNOT “SEPERATE” GOD, Who is a Spirit, FROM HIS WORDS, no more then you can be seperated from your words.
God spoke to us in times past in different ways , and different manners, and “through” the phophets, but in these “latter days” “through” a Son.  It ‘CLEARLY SAY , “GOD” SPOKE ” THROUGH” Them, it doesent say “THEY SPOKE” “THROUGH” THEMSELVES! does it? GOD is Spirit and can SPEED “THROUGH” ANYONE HE CHOSES TO.
HE SPOKE “THROUGH” JESUS, but Jesus know the words he was telling us were not his word, because he CLEARLY SAID THAT, “the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the WORDS “OF HIM”, WHO SENT ME. The “prophets” of old could say the exact same thing.
No Proclaimer, this subject is far from over, and will exist till JESUS RETURNS , THEN IT WILL BE OVER, THAT IS FOR SURE.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

October 4, 2020 at 4:17 am#866549
Berean
Participant
Gene
You don’t Say the TRUTH
Jesus is the center of the everlasting gospel of which the whole Bible speaks; without Him we cannot come to God.
Stop resisting the light, you risk a lot by dint of resisting against the truth
October 4, 2020 at 4:24 am#866550
Jodi
Participant
Good Morning All,
THE WORD
As said, John Chapter 1 IS ABOUT the anointing of Jesus. We are reading about God’s WORD made true in the flesh, the prophecies from Isaiah of a man being anointed and sent out into the world to bring forth salvation, righteousness and eternal life.
John Chapter 1 IS ABOUT A man who had been promised to be begotten of the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD, a man FILLED THUS WITH GRACE AND TRUTH. The very man whom God had promised from the beginning who would come and fulfill God’s purpose that He had also declared from the beginning.
As we are likewise told from prophecy, which is additionally the WORD from God made true in the flesh, a prophet was raised up from among brethren, God put His words in this man’s mouth, and those who heard the WORD and believed would be saved.
THE WORD
Acts 10:36 THE WORD which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That WORD, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
The WORD from the beginning that was WITH the Father promised unto us is ETERNAL LIFE. That WORD became true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth, when God raised him from the dead as a firstborn of many brethren.
October 4, 2020 at 4:36 am#866551
Berean
Participant
Jodi
All this to deny the divinity of the Son of God who was made flesh for our salvation.
October 4, 2020 at 4:58 am#866552
Jodi
Participant
Good Morning All,
People on this forum seem to have no clue what the Gospel is, what the Good News really is according to scripture.
The GOOD NEWS is that the Spirit of our One True God the Father YHVH does in fact cause righteousness and life for mankind.
The man Jesus was anointed with it, said to be a calling to righteousness where God would direct all His ways. As God directed all his ways we are told that he was MADE PERFECT learning obedience through suffering on the cross unto his death.
We are told that “God hath raised him up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.”
The Spirit that came to dwell upon Jesus brought forth unto him righteousness and life.
We are told that “This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
You people are NOT LISTENING to the WORD, instead it is clear you are blinded and the word of God goes in one ear and directly out of the other. You can’t even put simple two and two together.
The Spirit gives life because of righteousness we are told.
Jesus wanted you to know that he could do nothing of himself, it was all God being in him and with him.
Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
18 The Spirit of the LORD is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Isaiah’s prophecies concerning the son of Jesse are not completed yet, this son of Jesse was raised from the dead receiving the promised Holy Spirit and by that Spirit he is returning in the glory of our Father to judge, not with his own eyes and ears but through the Spirit of righteousness that is upon him.
He is returning to share the glory, share of the cup of the One Spirit, where with that Spirit upon us it will cause our own righteousness and eternal life, as it causes us too to walk in all of God’s ways. The Spirit will bear witness to our spirit that we are children of God, heirs of His Spirit, a Son like Jesus, a joint heir with Jesus, for those who are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

October 4, 2020 at 5:54 am#866553
Berean
Participant
No one denies what Jesus did when he was in the flesh (birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension and his next return) …. that is not the subject of this topic
The subject is :
WHO IS THAT WHO IS CALLED “THE WORD”
WHO IS “THE WORD”?

October 4, 2020 at 6:11 am#866554
Berean
Participant
This is very important because the Bible says in John 1
that THE WORD WAS GOD
AND That
THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH….
October 4, 2020 at 6:16 am#866555
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean…..Wrong again, GOD, the Father is the center of everything that exists , the Gospel is about, the SALVATION OF GOD THE FATHERS , “work” in humanity.  Just as the scriptures say,  “God” so loved the world, that “HE”, gave , his “only (uniquely) ” begotten human son, by raising him from the , “dead” , back to “eternal” life, that whoever believes in him “should” not parish”. Berean if you ‘truly” believed in Jesus you would believe in what he said?
YOU DO NOT ‘TRULY”, BELIEVE IN HIM OR YOU WOULD , “BELIEVE” IN WHAT HE SAID”. AND when he said, “the words he was telling us were “NOT” , “HIS” WORDS , YOU WOULD BELIEVE THAT ALSO. That alone tells us you don’t actually “believe”   Jesus at all, or you would agree with him. In fact you don’t even believe him when he said ,  ” this is eternal life, that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” true God.”. .., and Jesus who you have sent.” Berean do you know God the Father, as the “ONLY” TRUE GOD? Jesus sure did.
Satan loves you people, your doing exactly what he wants you to do with Jesus, Change the “IMAGE” of him, OF BEING the second Adam , A HUMAN BEING, INTO YOUR GOD. 2THS2. It’s all there for those who have the eyes to see. That man of sin mentioned is the false “IMAGE” you people have created of The “man” Jesus. That false “image” is changing Jesus’ “IMAGE” from a “real human being”, into a devine prexisting being a God. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT “IDOLATRY ” IS.
You people do not bow your knee to Jesus, “to the glory of God”, you bow your knee to the “glory of Jesus”, something Jesus would never have us do. You do not see that God the Father was, ” IN “, JESUS “RECONCILING” THE “WHOLE WORLD”, UNTO “HIMSELF”. through the ANOINTING SPIRIT he recieved at the Jordan river, after he was baptized, by John the Baptist.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

October 4, 2020 at 7:02 am#866556
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
You are told the WORD was God.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus tells you that the Spirit IS LIFE.
Job tells you, “the Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
READ,
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
In the beginning was the WORD -the WORD OF ETERNAL LIFE
The WORD- of life was WITH GOD from the beginning – as you are told in Titus 1 and 1 John 1
The WORD was God -for God’s Spirit is LIFE
ALSO in the beginning with God was His WORD that a man would come and be made into our source for eternal life.
THIS IS ALL BIBLICAL FACT Berean!
October 4, 2020 at 7:17 am#866557
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
YES the WORD was made flesh, in many ways as a matter of fact!
When Jesus was anointed with the Spirit filled with grace and truth, such was God’s word made true in the flesh, and the people beheld his glory as he spoke God’s word and performed signs and miracles all through the Spirit that was upon him.
It is beyond me how you don’t apply Isaiah’s prophecies that speak of the son of Jesse being anointed with that of the CHAPTER of John 1, which in that chapter you are being given Isaiah’s words as fulfilled in the flesh of Jesus when you are told that the Spirit came down like a dove upon him.
TRULY how BLIND can you be Berean?????????????
This anointing was for him to PREACH the WORD, which he did, he preached of the resurrection unto eternal life, and those who believed in his word were saved by it.
Good grief Berean, Isaiah tells you that he would be anointed, a calling to righteousness where he would fulfill the covenant the promise of salvation and eternal life, he would be for a LIGHT. John chapter 1 is speaking of THIS MAN being the LIGHT because God’s Spirit of righteousness came to dwell upon him. Isaiah also tells you that his own would reject him, which likewise you are told in John chapter 1.
The below scripture is likewise the declaration of the WORD made true in the flesh.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
God’s word of LIFE, that had been with God from the beginning and was God because God’s Spirit is LIFE, was made true in the flesh when Jesus was raised from the dead.
October 4, 2020 at 7:43 am#866558
Jodi
Participant
Proclaimer,
When you don’t believe that Jesus is God, I really don’t understand how you would then possibly try and say that THE WORD from John 1:1 represents Jesus, when THE WORD is said to be God.
You honestly don’t see how John 1 directly connects to 1 John 1 and Titus 1:2????
Did not God give word from the beginning declaring LIFE, are you not directly told that such was with Him from the beginning? Are you not told that God’s Spirit is LIFE?
Likewise are you not told that God’s WORD from the beginning was also that God would bring forth that LIFE through a man, and that this man became our source for eternal salvation?
You too, are you so blind that you do not see that verse 14 is directly speaking to God’s WORD from Isaiah being made true in the flesh of Jesus? ..especially when verse 32 in the same chapter speaks of his anointing of the Spirit??
COME ON!! FULL of GRACE and TRUTH, that has nothing to do with him being begotten of the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Reverence of the LORD????
No you say, verse 14 is not about God’s word of Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61 being made true in the flesh of Jesus.
You say,
it’s about a pre-existing spirit son who existed as God’s utterance leaving his glory behind to become flesh, so that the people could behold his glory as he had actually left his glory behind, and they are to see him as full of grace and truth because he pre-existed as God’s only begotten Son. Is that about right? It’s all absurd.
October 4, 2020 at 8:10 am#866559
Berean
Participant
Jodi and Gene
If You don’t see THE SON OF GOD in John 1
know that there is no other solid way of salvation other than THE DIVINE SON OF GOD made FLESH for our salivation.
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