Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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October 1, 2020 at 9:18 am#866472
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
Contradiction?
Are you saying the verse teaches us that the anointed Jesus wasn’t actually a man, but he came only in the “fashion” of a man?
We are clearly taught repeatedly that he was and still is a MAN.
Now how did this anointed man find himself in the fashion of other men?
fashion – schema – the habitus, as comprising everything in a person which strikes the senses, the figure, bearing, discourse, actions, manner of life etc
Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Berean, Jesus was numbered with transgressors, not only did God make him to be SIN for us, when he went to the cross being spit upon , mocked and beaten, the people saw him as a transgressor. He was found in the fashion of all men, he humbled himself, he was not deserving of death, but he remained an obedient servant.
When Jesus was anointed and sent out becoming the promised seed of Abraham (the anointed), even though he was in the form of God having the Spirit not by measure, he found himself as a weak mortal human who could be tempted and like all men, he feared death.
October 1, 2020 at 9:28 am#866473
Berean
Participant
BEFORE HE BECAME A MAN HE WAS
THE SON OF GOD WHO WAS GOD
And THE WORD BECAME FLESH…John 1
and was made in the likeness of men:…..(Phippians 2)

October 1, 2020 at 9:38 am#866474
Berean
Participant

King James Bible
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
JODI
WHEN THE SON OF GOD WAS RICH ?
WHEN HE BECAME POOR. ?(that ye through his poverty might be rich.)

October 1, 2020 at 9:57 am#866475
Jodi
Participant
Proclaimer,
Jesus has many names, he is called also The Lamb of God, does that make him literally a lamb? No, that is totally absurd, nonsensical.
The lamb represents something that symbolizes Christ, as the lamb chosen for sacrifice was without spot or blemish Jesus was like the lamb, for he too was without spot or blemish.
Jesus being given the name The Word of God, does not make him literally existing as someone else’s utterance, that is totally absurd, nonsensical.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
The Word represents something that symbolizes Christ, as the Word was eternal life, Jesus by his blood became the source of eternal salvation (Hebrews 5:9).
And what do we have,
YHVH promised eternal life before the world was. Titus 1:2
Eternal life was WITH the Father. 1 John 1:2
YHVH declared from the beginning that a man would come and execute that purpose, eternal salvation. Isaiah 46
This man was handed over by YHVH’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. Acts 2:23

October 1, 2020 at 10:30 am#866476
Proclaimer
Participant
Jesus has many names, he is called also The Lamb of God, does that make him literally a lamb? No, that is totally absurd, nonsensical.
Not sure it specifically says that his name is the Lamb of God. Likely a title. But even if it was, then yes he is the Lamb of God. And he is the Word of God. Simple.
We know for sure that his name is Jesus (Yeshua or some other variant) and his name is The Word of God as you have previously stated.
He is Jesus. He is the Word of God. He is the Lamb of God.
No one here is making the case that he is an attribute of God in that he is the logos within God.
Remember that he is the full expression of God. He is expressed. He is of God. From God. Next to God. Son of God. Word of God. Lamb of God.
Get it now? He is the Word of God. Case closed.
October 1, 2020 at 10:35 am#866477
Jodi
Participant
Proclaimer,
In the beginning was The Word (Eternal Life) and the Word (Eternal Life) was With God, and the Word (Eternal Life) was God, GOD IS LIFE, His Spirit is LIFE because of righteousness.
John 1 is about the Anointing of Jesus, the Spirit coming upon him, him being called to righteousness where God promised to hold his hand and keep him to make him for a covenant for the people, a light even to the Gentiles. God’s WORD of Isaiah 11, 42, 61 made true in the flesh.
That covenant is him shedding his blood to become the source for eternal salvation, which was God’s deliberate plan from the beginning. As he was anointed and sent to preach of his death and a promise of eternal life, his own rejected him.
In Jesus was LIFE because the SPIRIT was in him, making him for to be a light to all people.
October 1, 2020 at 10:36 am#866478
Proclaimer
Participant
The below scriptures teach us that YHVH’s WORD before the world began was a promise of eternal life unto mankind, where all flesh would come to worship Him as they inhabit the earth. We are also taught that YHVH SAITH that He HIMSELF formed the earth and made it.
You snuck in the word ‘promise’. Similarly, the serpent snuck in the words ‘you shall not die’ when speaking to Eve. And they didn’t die. But they did later on.
October 1, 2020 at 10:42 am#866480
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
Jesus’s name means YHVH is salvation.
YHVH’s WORD promised from the beginning was salvation unto Eternal Life.
YHVH’s WORD promised from the beginning was the shedding of Jesus’s blood for him to be made our source for eternal salvation.
So it couldn’t be more perfect for Jesus to be given another name to be called that fits perfectly with his given name, The Word of God.
October 1, 2020 at 10:48 am#866481
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak THE WORD OF GOD to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
Paul spoke THE WORD OF GOD, he spoke of Jesus being made the source of eternal salvation. Both THE WORD of eternal salvation and THE SOURCE to receive THE WORD was declared from the beginning.
October 1, 2020 at 11:00 am#866485
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer
ME: The below scriptures teach us that YHVH’s WORD before the world began was a promise of eternal life unto mankind, where all flesh would come to worship Him as they inhabit the earth. We are also taught that YHVH SAITH that He HIMSELF formed the earth and made it.
YOU: You snuck in the word ‘promise’. Similarly, the serpent snuck in the words ‘you shall not die’ when speaking to Eve. And they didn’t die. But they did later on.
ME: Proclaimer, I gave you this passage in that same post.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, PROMISED before the world began;
I snuck in no such thing, you make your tongue as sharp as a serpent’s, the poison of vipers is on your lips.
October 1, 2020 at 8:19 pm#866501
Berean
Participant
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.(2Cor.8:9)
JODI
WHEN THE SON OF GOD WAS RICH ?
WHEN HE BECAME POOR. ?(that ye through his poverty might be rich.)

October 2, 2020 at 2:59 am#866503
GeneBalthrop
Participant
TO all…..Jesus was rich, because of all the Glory that was promised him, from the foundation of the earth, he never used that promise to him , for his own personal benifit while on this earth. But he humbled himself and even though being the promised king of kings and great wealth, he took on the role of a servant. That scripture has nothing to do with any past wealth “existence” he had, because he did not exist before his birth on this earth, except in the plan and will of God.
You people never tire in trying to move Jesus away from his brothers and sisters. All who make Jesus out to be different in his humanity, then the rest of humanity, are servants , of SATAN . that is exactly what he wants you to do. Move Jesus away from the rest of us human being, and make him the object of your worship as your God. 2THS2.
Satan want you to move Jesus away from his “only” human flesh existence, and Glorify Him as you God, because he knows that you will be commiting “idolatry” and breaking the First commandment of God. “you shall have no other God besides me” .
You people are brave not even fearing the very words of God himself, not to even mention Jesus own words, good luck with that, your going to need it. IMO
Jesus said, in that day “MANY” shall come unto me and say lord in “your name” we did these things . , but what is his answer?, “depart from me you workers of “iniquities” I know you not”. What iniquity was he talking about, which they were commiting, go read and try to understand, the “iniquity that was ‘already’ at work” at the time of the apostles, written in “2ths2”. The iniquity of turning a man, (Jesus), into a GOD.
For those who have eyes to see.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
October 2, 2020 at 4:47 am#866505
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
YOU: For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.(2Cor.8:9)
JODI
WHEN THE SON OF GOD WAS RICH ?
WHEN HE BECAME POOR. ?(that ye through his poverty might be rich.)
ME:
Let’s compare that which you say scriptures teaches from that which I say they teach. Addressing 2 Cor 8:9.
You want passages, including 2 Cor 8:9, to say they teach that Jesus pre-existed in the form of God where he had glory and was rich, but he humbled himself coming to earth leaving his form, glory and wealth behind for awhile to temporarily exist in the fashion of a man to die for our sins.
What I teach is much more profound than that,
Jesus of Nazareth was anointed with the Spirit not by measure. YHVH had said concerning mortal man (the people that He had made and had given a spirit to walk therein), that He would give His glory to no other. Jesus was filled with grace and truth, he was filled with the powers of YHVH’s Spirit, the prophecies (WORD of God) of Isaiah 11, 42, and 61 were made true in his flesh.
As Luke 4 tells you, Jesus left the river Jordan having been filled with the Spirit and he was Led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested. He was God’s Son being led by the Spirit where the Spirit bore witness to his spirit that he was a child of God. As promised, God was going to hold his hand and keep him, direct all his ways to fulfill the covenant that frees us from our sins.
Jesus was sent into the wilderness, he was RICH in the power of the Spirit, as he was in the form of God with that power having been given to him. As he thought it not robbery that he was equal with God having received that power, he none of the less found himself likewise in the fashion of a man, like all men he had weak mortal flesh where he could feel strong HUNGER pangs. Jesus being 40 days in the wilderness without food HUNGERED like all men, but as he was in the form of God with God’s powers he could use those powers for his own use, he could turn stones into bread and feed himself. But Jesus did not use those powers for himself, he humbled himself and was a servant to God, only using those powers according to God’s will, never his own.
Instead of using his powers to make bread from stone as he hungered he quoted scripture from Moses “man cannot live on bread alone but by every word of God.” Such is exactly what Jesus did. He was a man living by the word of God. The word of God was that God was going to hold his hand and keep him. Though Jesus in the fashion of all men having weak mortal flesh, God’s word was in Jesus, God was with Jesus holding his hand and keeping him from giving into temptation. Through the Spirit upon Jesus leading him he was able to overcome the temptations of the world.
Likewise, when Jesus went to the cross he overcame that which has held all men in bondage all their lives, the fear of death. Then too he lived by the word of God, God had promised him that he would settle him in His house and give him an eternal throne, He promised him that he would receive a portion among the great and be the man who would divide the spoil with the strong, He promised Jesus that He would anoint him above his brothers and sisters, that He would exalt him to sit at His right hand giving Jesus dominion over all the works our One True God the Father YHVH had made, including dominions and thrones. Jesus went to the cross having faith in the word of God, knowing he would be resurrected to be a king of kings and a lord of lords serving God to fulfill all of God’s will. God’s word was in Jesus, God had said that Jesus would not fail in all that He asked him to do, even dying on the cross.
Berean, you are told that Jesus LEARNED OBEDIENCE suffering on the cross, that he was perfected by it. Jesus learned and we learn through him, that the power of YHVH’s Spirit upon man brings forth righteousness and life.

October 2, 2020 at 5:13 am#866506
Berean
Participant
There is one way that seems right to a man, but the end of it are the ways of death (Proverbs 14:12)
This is your case, Gene
Countering the truth constantly, You risks to loose eternal life.
October 2, 2020 at 5:27 am#866507
Berean
Participant

Jodi
You
What I teach is much more profound than that, ……
Me
Jodi
the words of God in your writings are lies
that’s all …
To deny the divinity of Jesus and believe to preach deep things, but in what blindness you are Jodi !!!! ??? it is appalling.
October 3, 2020 at 2:47 am#866521
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean……what truth., “your truth”, we quote scripture over and over to you, exactly what is written and even spoken by Jesus himself.
But they find no place in you, because you simply are not of the “truth” , if you were of the truth you would love what we are saying.
Berean if I were you I would be more concerned about your own salvation , and remember what it says, “HE WHO CONDEMNS ANOTHER, CONDEMNS “HIMSELF” ? and again, “judge not, lest you be judged by the same merits you judge others”, And again, judge “nothing” before the time”.
I put my judgement in the hands of my God, not a carnel human being, who goes about unknowingly preaching, Satan’s “DOCTRINES OF SEPERATION” , thinking he is serving the true God and our lord Jesus Christ?
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

October 3, 2020 at 3:32 am#866523
Berean
Participant
Yes Gene you resist the Word of God and it is very sad.
October 3, 2020 at 5:17 am#866524
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
Below I am applying scripture with scripture. Really curious as to how you’d explain that we are JOINT-HEIRS with Christ?
Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. …32: He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them,Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has RECEIVED from the Father the PROMISED Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
We are JOINT heirs with the anointed Jesus. Jesus at the river Jordan was baptized and received the Spirit upon him without measuring, an anointing, it was a calling to righteousness where God had promised to cause him to walk in all his ways so that he would obey God, even set us at liberty going to the cross in obedience. He DIED, and was resurrected RECEIVING the PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT. He rose from the dead an heir of God, an heir of God’s Spirit, and we are JOINT heirs with him, likewise promised to receive the Spirit and walk in ALL of God’s ways.
Berean, Isaiah’s prophecies are not yet COMPLETED they involve a Son of Man who returns in the glory of our Father. Recall Paul’s words, Jesus’s origin is of the seed of David, he is to sit on an eternal throne according to the flesh, where he is a Son of God ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT by his resurrection from the dead. ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT he received as was PROMISED, he is a Son of God. We are to be made in his image, we are to receive of the One Spirit, we are Sons by being led by God’s Spirit, we are Sons by having the Spirit bear witness with our spirit that we are, such makes us heirs of God and JOINT heirs with the man anointed of the Spirit, JESUS.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Berean, the DIVINE NATURE that we partake in is from the drinking of the one cup that Jesus drinks of, the One Spirit. The MAN Jesus has this glory of the Father. Where the Spirit is there is Life because of righteousness. When we are said to be heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ, such is us partaking along with Jesus of the divine nature, partaking of the One Spirit.
October 3, 2020 at 5:21 am#866525
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
YOU:
the words of God in your writings are lies
ME:
Give one example?

October 3, 2020 at 6:25 am#866526
Berean
Participant
Jodi
The topic HERE IS: WHO IS “The Word”
Yes or no ?
I Say THAT the bible’s answer IS :the divine Son if God IS the ONE WHO IS CALLED “THE WORD”
AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
AND THE WORD MADE FLESH…..
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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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