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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • September 23, 2020 at 2:48 am#866375
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean….Again you fail to answer my “direct question to you,  I will repeat it again OK,  where does it say anywhere in John 1, that Jesus is the word of God or for that matter a God.  You are forcing texts to say what they in fact do not say?

    I have shown you over and over “clearly from scriptures, it says, there is but “ONE” GOD,  and “ONLY” “ONE” “TRUE” God.  from Jesus’ own mouth . Paul also said it, “but unto us there is only “ONE” God,  and one mediator between men and God,  “THE “MAN” Jesus Christ. 

    Until you come to understand that, you haven’t even began to understand the truth yet, if you truly believe scriptures you would get that “truth” straight in your mind, and then read the rest with that foundation of truth well established in your mind.

    Proclaimer…… is a loose cannon, bouncing off the walls, dosen’t know who Jesus is or was,  either , only suspects he was something that “preexisted” somewhere, at sometime, but he dosen’t realy know that either.

    Berean….Jesus was and is a 100% real, “human” being, a born human being, born without any advantage over us,  made “perfect” by the Spirit of the Living God.  Exactly as we can also be. He is our “elder Brother”,  in the household of God “our” Father. The “firstborn” into the family and kingdom of God, by the resurection from the dead, the first from humanity  to recieve “eternal” life , the first of “many” brothern,  from mankind, but certainly not the last. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

     

     

     

    September 23, 2020 at 2:56 am#866376
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Jesus is also called the bright and morning star, so do you believe he is a real star “planet” out in space some where?  Can you see how that logic can take you, Jesus is “called” the word of God because he speaks the words of God the Father to us. It a title given him, but he “himself ” is not GOD’S WORD OR WORDS. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    September 23, 2020 at 8:25 am#866377
    Berean
    Participant

    Calm Gene Stop fidgeting and taking people for ….

    Bible say that in John the name given to the Son of God IS “THE WORD” Like you say he have other names ok …. like Jesus, THE KING OF KINGS … ETC WHERE IS THE PROBLEM GENE ?WHEN WHE SPEAK OF “THE WORD” WHE KNOW THAT WE SPEAK ABOUT JESUS ​​WHO WAS WITH GOD AND WHO WAS GOD …… He was with God before the world was …. 17: 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    September 23, 2020 at 9:42 am#866378
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Berean….Jesus was and is a 100% real, “human” being, a born human being, born without any advantage over us,

    We all agree so move on.

    Who, being in very nature God,
        did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
     rather, he made himself nothing
        by taking the very nature of a servant,
        being made in human likeness.

    Notice how you reject the first part of this scripture while we defend the whole scripture?

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    September 23, 2020 at 8:08 pm#866384
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Proclaimer

    quote something that shows what you are telling me here …
    See you….

    September 24, 2020 at 2:23 am#866385
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Proclaimer was talking to me, not you , he just got you mixed up with what I said .

    Proclaimer, I will say it again, “all who have the Spirit of God in them are the Sons of God, because the Fathers “seed” abides “in” them, the do,  like Jesus, have the Nature of God, just like Jesus did when he “existed” on this earth. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    September 24, 2020 at 4:01 am#866386
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: all who have the Spirit of God in them are the Sons of God,

    because the Fathers “seed” abides “in” them, 

    ME: PERFECT GENE!

    NOW WHO IS THE FATHER’S SEED ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE HEREUNDER?

     

    Matthew 13:Then having sent away the multitudes, he came into the house, and his disciples came to him, saying:

    Expound to us the parable of the cockle of the field. 

    37Who made answer and said to them:

    He that SOWETH THE GOOD SEED, is

    THE SON OF MAN.(pre-existed Gene, slain like a lamb from the BEGINNING of the world. SOWING HIS GOOD SEED)

     38And the field, is the world. And

    THE GOOD SEED

    ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM. (SIMPLY AS THEY KEPT “THE WORD” JESUS’SPIRIT, THE SON OF MAN IN THEIR HEART, John14:23, John15:1-11)

    And the cockle, are

    the children of the wicked one.

    39And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil.( SATAN ON EVE’S SIN)

    But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels. 40Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire: so shall it be at the end of the world.

    41The Son of man(WHERE IS THE FATHER GENE?)

    shall send

    HIS (PHYSICAL)ANGELS,

    and they shall gather out of his kingdom all scandals, and them that work iniquity.

    42And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the just shine as the sun, in the (PHYSICAL) kingdom of

    THEIR FATHER (JESUS CHRIST)

     

    He that HATH EARS to hear, let HIM HEAR.

    HEAR THIS NOW GENE:

    Hebrews 2:13 And again: I will put my trust in him. And again:

    Behold I and MY (PHYSICAL)  CHILDREN, 

    whom God hath given me. JOHN 17:2, (ON JESUS RESURRECTION, ALL EMBODIED IN “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, THE SEED OF GOD.

    THE MAN BORN AGAIN JOHN3:3) 

     

    ANSWER GENE  AND SUBSTANTIATE YOUR VIEWS, IS JESUS CHRIST 

    OUR PHYSICAL FATHER AND GOD! John17:2 AS MUCH AS

    GOD, JESUS’FATHER IS OUR SPIRITUAL FATHER, AND THROUGH JESUS AND IN JESUS HE IS ALSO OUR PHYSICAL FATHER,

    TILL THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD, WHEN HE SHALL BE

    ALL IN ALL

    peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    September 24, 2020 at 7:49 am#866387
    Berean
    Participant

    Thank’s Gene for clarifie ….

     

    September 25, 2020 at 1:51 am#866388
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..The seed Jesus was sowing was not himself,  no scripture says Jesus is the seed of God, he sowed the seed, but a sower of seed is never himself the seed.

    John was talking about the seed of God , as the “sperma” of God, or simply put the “Spirit” of God , equating it to human  sperm, that forms a human being a SON OF MAN,  the Spirit of God is the “sperma” of God, it produces SONS OF GOD.  ALL who have the spirit of God in them are now the Sons of God.   

    Carmel you constantly try to change the narratives in scriptures to meet your views,  Jesus like us has a human Father, as well as a heavenly Father. “exactly” the “same” as we have”.  Unless you see Jesus .

    Jesus has a God, it is not him, it is the “exact” same,  God we have, Jesus has a heavenly Father , it is the “exact” same, as ours. 

    Jesus came from a human linage, he came into his  existence , Just as the prophets, the Apostles  and Jesus himself said,  “I am the root and offspring of David. , he came into his “only” existence “exactly as we do,  through humanity. As another “SON OF MAN”,  who through the “anointing” Spirit of God , was born again, exactly the same as we also must be. 

    SATAN want you to preach that Jesus is different then we are,  because he does not want “humanity” to see their potential.  To see that it is exactly the same as  “the man” Jesus .  Anyone who moves Jesus away from our “exact idenity”  with him is doing exactly what Satan wants him to do. 

    Carmel moving Jesus up to a God status , moves him away from the rest of humanity,  and causes people to worship him as their GOD, and thereby committing “IDOLATRY”.  That is the wide way that leads to “destruction” and “many” go in threat thereof”.

    Nearly all Chretsendom has fallen for the “biggest” LIE,  ever told ,  which is Satan’s  “DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    September 25, 2020 at 6:48 am#866390
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    ….all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: ….

    Gêne , A mere man before all things ????

    September 25, 2020 at 7:31 am#866391
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    quote something that shows what you are telling me here …
    See you….

    Sorry, but it was Gene’s direct quote in which he mentions your name. I might make quotes stand out better as quotes using some code in the site.

    September 25, 2020 at 8:59 am#866392
    Berean
    Participant

    It doesn’t matter Proclaimer

    September 25, 2020 at 11:18 am#866401
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Proclaimer, I will say it again, “all who have the Spirit of God in them are the Sons of God, because the Fathers “seed” abides “in” them, the do, like Jesus, have the Nature of God, just like Jesus did when he “existed” on this earth.

    Does an apple seed grow and take on the nature of an apple tree?

    September 25, 2020 at 7:15 pm#866403
    Berean
    Participant

    We must learn from Christ. We have to know what He is for those He has redeemed. We must understand that by believing in Him we have the privilege of participating “in the divine nature, fleeing the corruption that exists in the world by lust”. Then we will be cleansed from all sin, from all character defect. We must not keep a single sinful tendency
    Evil tendencies, hereditary or acquired, are eliminated from character as we become a power living for good. We cooperate with God in triumphing over Satan’s temptations by always learning from the divine Master, by participating daily in His nature. God and man act to make this one with Christ, as Christ is one with God. So we sit with Christ in the heavenly places. The spirit rests in peace and security in Jesus (RH 24/4/1900).

    September 25, 2020 at 11:07 pm#866405
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Amen.

    We need to let the seed planted in us grow without hinderance.

    The Word he has placed in our hearts is truth and it sanctifies us.

    The good seed stands grows and stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one.

    “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

    September 26, 2020 at 12:38 am#866408
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean….. A branch is part of the vine, they are the same thing as the  branch is the extension of the vine, but it is the Spirit (sap)  that flows through it that produces the fruit. That Spirit is of God, it is not “of” the vine, but of God. Spirit  flows through the vine and branches. Neither is Jesus  the God that is “in” him,  God is not the vine nor the branches through which he flows,  God “alone” is the “creator” of “all” things, and gives life to his creation, he alone and by himself does all that.  Jesus is part of the physical creation, just as we are, no difference, “one” God in “all” and through “all.  

    The problem is that people try to make Jesus the God that is “in” him, that is “idolatry”,  so you see how important it is that we understand the difference, and realize Jesus is a human being just like we are, and God is in him , Just the same as God can be in us also. 

    Berean….,you will have it right when you  move Jesus away from being your God, and see him as your “elder brother” in the human “spritual”  Family of God the Father. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

     

    September 26, 2020 at 12:56 am#866409
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer…..does a apple seed grow and take on the nature of an apple tree?  It sure does, the “sperma” that is in the seed,  produces another apple tree “exactly” like the one it came from,  “exactly” like it.  So it is with those who have the,  seed,  “sperma” of God in them,  the take on the “nature” of God, exactly as Jesus did and all those who have the “seed” (sperma) of God the Father  “in” them.

    No difference, just as it says “as he is in this world so are we.”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    September 26, 2020 at 1:47 am#866410
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Gene

    You

    Berean….,you will have it right when you  move Jesus away from being your God, and see him as your “elder brother” in the human “spritual”  Family of God the Father.

    Me

    My God IS God the Father…..

    Jesus (THE WORD) WAS GOD AND IS GOD IN NATURE BUT NOT IN PERSONALITY

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD IS GOD THE FATHER

    AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH….John 1

    But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:…..Philllipians 2

    THIS IS the  TRUTH   Gene

    September 26, 2020 at 2:56 am#866411
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean….. GOD’S WORDS about Jesus  CAME TO BE,  IT WAS THE “FLESH MAN” JESUS,  THAT WAS (GOD’S)  “PROPHESIED” WORD FULFILLED.   Jesus never said he was the word of God “himself”,  what he said was this,  “the “words” I am telling you, are “NOT” my words, but the “Words” of him that sent me. 

    Why can’t you understand that? Can’t you see that in effect you are,  calling Jesus a “liar”.  Why don’t you believe what Jesus directly said concerning the words he was telling us. A word can not be applied to the person “quoting” them ,  they can only be applied to the one who gave them,  Jesus gave us God the Fathers words, they were not “his” words,  So how could Jesus actually be GOD THE FATHERS “WORDS” HIMSELF.  

    NO one could be your word but you, It is impossible to make your words be somebody else’s. So it is with God’s words. 

    You have fallen for Satan’s false teachings of the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION”.  Making Jesus out to be something other then a human being is a false teaching.

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

    September 26, 2020 at 3:38 am#866412
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    Bible Say( not me) that:

    And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

    JESUS IS BEFORE ALL THINGS AND THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH

    THIS IS THE THRUTH

    YOU PREACH À FALSE CHRIST

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