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[Worshipping Jesus]

Why does it put part of my quote in Kathi’s?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Same ole Nick…. no answer

[Worshipping Jesus]

LU wrote:

Nick,

Do you serve the Father, do you also serve the Son? Unless they are together as ONE God, then you are serving two masters.

 

Right before their very eyes! They also have more than “One Saviour”, yet the scriptures tell us we have “Only One Savior Jesus Christ”, who is not our Saviour by proxy!

“To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.” Jude 1:25

Now, Jude must of been mistaken right? Well he uses the words “Only and Our Savour”. So if this scripture is referring to the Father then Jude contradicts other scripture like this one…

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the “great God and our Saviour” Jesus Christ;” Titus 2:13

Titus proclaims Jesus here as the Saviour apparently contradicting Jude who says “God is the only Saviour”. The only way you can reconcile this is reject one of the scriptures unless you see them as “One God and One Saviour”. One of many conundrums they have.

WJ

LU wrote:

Nick,

Do you serve the Father, do you also serve the Son? Unless they are together as ONE God, then you are serving two masters.

 

Right before their very eyes! They also have more than “One Saviour”, yet the scriptures tell us we have “Only One Savior Jesus Christ”, who is not our Saviour by proxy!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

LU,May wrote:

Can you choose boldly, right here, publicly, out in the open and in the light? Or are you not able to answer?

LU

I choose to Boldly say I love and Worship Jesus as I love and Worship the Father God! 🙂 My name should say it all!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

LU

Amen Kathi! Jesus said “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” Lk 10:27

We should have the same devotion and Love for Jesus and the Holy Spirit as the Father God! I don’t see how you can give the same devotion and Love to Jesus unless you see them as equal.

WJ

 

[Worshipping Jesus]

NH, my oldest opponent! How are you?

Nick, I am glad you talk to your Lord in prayer! I don’t want to crash this thread by getting off topic. Are you Catholic? Do you also talk to Mary, or any of the other saints etc? If not why not? You seem to think prayer is not exclusive to God?

WJ

Edited for spelling errors.

 

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hey LU

Long time no see! How is my greatest challenge in debates, doing? You are tough and it is because you are strong and smarter than I! 🙂

Feel free to correct my English. I am trying to improve!

I like your angle. This brings into question fellowship with our God. How do you have fellowship with God unless you pray to him since he cannot be here in front of us in the flesh, though his Spirit is present? So if having fellowship with God means prayer, which is our only way to communicate to him then how do you have fellowship with Jesus without praying to him. Since we know it is idolatry to pray to anyone or anything other than God, then that means Jesus is God, or we cannot know him or fellowship with him apart from prayer. If Jesus is not God then all the ant-trinitarians are committing idolatry or they have no fellowship with him which would also mean they don’t know him.

Love in Christ Sister

 

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hey everyone! How is everyone at Heavennet? Just dropping by and checking out things. My wife and I are doing well. Just moved back to our home here in NC. I noticed in the debate thread t8 and LU have been debating for going on 4 years about Jesus being God. Was reading a lot of it and it looks like a really good debate. I compliment them both on the nature of the debate being free from ad-hominems and battering each other. Love you guys and hope you all are doing well. Hope to drop in from time to time. I see NH is back and was wondering if Mike is still around? Take care! Blessings to you all!

[Worshipping Jesus]

AMEN!!!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Marty

What I am saying is that even if I were to take the same stance as t8 and say that Jesus is not God I still could not read the context of John 1:1- 17 with an open mind and not believe that John is speaking of Jesus and not just some spoken word. For instance, John 1:11 states…”He came unto his own, and his own received him not.” This was spoken of Jesus unless you can show me otherwise. John is obviously speaking of the world not knowing Jesus or receiving him. John 1:12 states…‘But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” Now unless you can show me where the spoken word of God has a name then the evidence continues to mount that the Word in John 1:1 that John speaks of is Jesus. Then it says…And the Word was made flesh , and dwelt ( the greek means the word was tabernacled) among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” Nowhere is the “spoken word of God said to be “Begotten” of God. More evidence.

Obviously the same “Word” in John 1:1 was made flesh in this verse. IMO one would have to put blinders on to not see this. If John or Jesus was here in the flesh they would rebuke everyone that states that Jesus is not the person spoken of in the first 17 verses of John For crying out loud John says this same “Word” John the Baptist “… bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. Again the context bears out that John is talking about the person of Jesus and the kicker is he says Jesus was before him. We know that he is not speaking of his cousins birth. Like t8 pointed out Jesus said “before Abraham was I Am”. They wanted to stone him because Jesus was proclaiming to exist before Abraham.

Open your eyes and your heart and see the obvious that Jesus is “The Person” spoken of in John 1:1.

 

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Amen t8!

 

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi All!

 

John.1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

 

Anyone that reads these scriptures without bias or prejudice can clearly see that the context proves that Jesus is the “Word” that is spoken of in John 1:1. John clearly refers to that Word that was with God as Jesus. Forgetting even that it says the “Word was God”, it clearly states that nothing came into being without him (Jesus the Word),  and that would mean that Jesus is not part of the nothing that came into being!

 

WJ

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Admin.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hey t8

At first I didn’t know if I liked the new format, but after checking things out I think it is great. You have obviously been hard at work. I hope you and yours are well!

 

Blessings! WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hey everyone! I see you guys are still at it! Of all the regulars here has anyone changed their beliefs yet? Anyway good to see you all in the cyber world and hope everyone is doing well! I love all you guys! Blessings! WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Was God in Jesus body Mike?

John 1:1, 14 and 16, Phil 2:6-8

[Worshipping Jesus]

Mike

You should be a news caster! That was great spin on the facts of the scriptures that we quote!

God is Spirit MIke, and according to the scriptures, the Lord is that Spirit. If you build from those facts then you have the right foundation for sound doctrine! The fact that God came in the flesh is scriptural and the proof is that because of that, God lives in the flesh in us!  

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 20 2014,11:02)

The Word OF God is not God Himself.

And why not?

The Word was God! John 1:1

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17

When you begin to understand that the real you is a Spirit being who has a Soul and lives in a Body, then you will begin to understand how God can be found in the likeness of human flesh. Phil 2:6-8

We were made in the image of God which also is a Spirit being.

The Spirit of God, is God!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2014,08:23) First, Paul says we are to look to Jesus. Why would he say that in the first place not only here but also in many others he points us to Jesus? Why would he not say “look to the Father through Jesus”? And what if Paul, in that particular instance, HAD said, “look to the Father through Jesus”?  Would it change your understanding at all?

That’s a hypothetical Mike, and no it wouldn’t change my mind because of the many scriptures I have posted where Paul makes Jesus equal to the Father like…

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and “from the Lord Jesus Christ”.   1 Cor 1:2

And…
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and “from the Lord Jesus Christ”. Eph 1:2

There you go Mike, Grace and Peace comes from the Father and the Lord Jesus!

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

Because there are about 100 times in scripture where Paul plainly distinguishes Jesus as someone other than, and lesser than, the one he calls “God”.

Really Mike, then why don’t you produce those scriptures that say Jesus is lesser than the Father God. I have given you over a 150 scriptures that says Jesus is our source and you have yet to prove that even one of those scriptures do not say so. All you can point to is the Father gave him all things after he had left all things and came into this world in the likeness of sinful flesh.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

So when Paul says, “I thank God for you through Jesus Christ” – or something similar, do you take that to heart and understand that “Jesus” and “God” are two different beings that Paul is talking about?

Two different persons yes, but they are of the same kind, just as man is mankind, God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God kind.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

If not, then why do you suppose “look to the Father through Jesus” would make an ounce of difference to you?

But the scripture nowhere says “look to the Father through Jesus the author and finisher of your faith” does it Mike? It says look to Jesus. Jesus himself said “come unto me”, but you will not come to him.

Call upon the name of Jesus and be saved Mike. Talk to Jesus and he will talk to you.

Lord willing, more later!

Blessings!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2014,08:23) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2 Yes Keith.  No man has ever seen God Almighty.

Wow Mike, so you admit that Jesus must be God as the Father since he has seen the Father yet you say Jesus is still a man! John 6:46

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

But the only begotten god was sent by his and our Almighty God – to make that Almighty God known to us.

If Jesus has been given all Authority and all things are in his hands, then that means Jesus is “Almighty”. Then of course the scriptures call him God so that would make him God Almighty right? But you have chosen to diminish his authority and his role as God over “His People”. So sad Mike!

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2014,20:05)

Jesus explained to us what true faith in God is.  There will be no other to explain it any better to us, because Jesus is still available to those who seek.  In this way, he began our search and understanding of true faith (the author), and is still there as the mediator between us and God, if we should ever start to doubt that faith (finisher).

Nice how you sugar coat it, but tell me Mike, just how does Jesus “explain to you about true faith”? Is he still the same to you as the scriptures says he is, the “same yesterday, today and forever”? Is he alive and still speaking to you Mike, and if so then how do you fellowship with him? You have dodged this question again. Why? Mike do you still call on the name of Jesus today?

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours 1 Cor 1:2

If not why not? Please explain…

More later…

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2014,13:51)

WJ, Are you of the trinitarian tradition that believes “the word is God” is saying the word is qualitatively God?

Hi Kerwin

I believe that the very essence of what God is as Spirit, is exactly what Jesus is.

There was a debate by a brother named Isa 1:18 and t8 a while back and he explains it best here…!

Also the Net Bible has some good commentary found here… Just click on the verse John 1:1 and the number 3 and you will see the commentary at the bottom of the page for John 1:1c.

Blessings!

WJ

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