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[shakai7]

Hi Nick,

 I am saying that the meaning of the original text in some cases has been distorted or changed by the by the translation. Through the translation Greek mytholgy has been injected into the doctrine.
 In the case of hades. Hades was understood by the early Greek believers in it's pagan dress when they were converted. They brought that understanding into their new found religion. When they read the Greek scripture and saw the familiar names, they carried the long taught pagan meaning with them. These teachings filtered into the Messianic doctrine. Hades and sheol are not the same.

 Greek is not our cutural context, yet through that early mixture of the Word and greek mythology we are blindly led into falsehood.

 I see Luke 16:19 to be a parable with the attempt to teach a lesson. It is not a literal story. Each part explains different teachings by Yahshua. The overall message is, the rich who never help the less fortunate and those in need, like widows and orphans, have all their reward in this world. But the poor, who have nothing in this world, will inherit the Kingdom in the the age to come, while the rich will be cast out and have nothing.

 The rich man would not even give the poor beggar even the crumbs that fell from his table. The beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side, bossom. To the Jewish listener, to whom He was talking, Abraham's side represented the Messianic Kingdom. (Matt. 13:28 “There will be there and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Elohim and you yourselves cast out.”) Speaking here Yahshua describes the fate of the evil and the righteous. One with Abraham, and one cast out and gnashing his teeth.

 Abraham was carried off by angels. (Matt. 13:40f) At the end of the age the angels will come and seperate the good from the bad. The bad will will be thrown into the firey furnace and the good to the Kingdom of their father.

 When I was hungry you did not feed me, when I was naked you did not clothe me. They asked when did we not? He said, when you did it to the least of mine, you did it to Me.

 If they did not believe Moses and the prophets they will not believe one who comes back from the dead. And they did not.

There is much more to this .

The names of the days proves how much we have blindly received fro paganism.

S7

[shakai7]

Hi Nick,

 For sure the Jewish religious leaders were a problem for the Messianic assembly at first. That was because of their twisted interpretation of the Torah. Later as believers from the gentiles increased, their pagan teachings were adopted into the Messianic doctrine.

 An example came to my mind when I was reading a disscussion on another topic. The words hell, hadies, sheol, and gehenna came up in that topic's exchange. Those are good examples of Greek mythology infiltrating Messianic doctrine through their intercourse with the whore.

 Sheol, is the Hebrew word for “the grave”. Sheol is the only word translated to the word “hell” in the OT. This is a bad translation.

 “Hades”, is used in the NT and is also translated to “hell”. Also in the NT is the word “gehenna” and “tartarus” is translated to “hell”.

 In Greek mythology “Hades” was the lord of the underworld, the lord of the dead. Hades rules the dead with assitance from demonic helpers. He is said to possess the riches of the earth. Hades is also used as the name of the place where the souls of the dead are held.

 The place Hades, is made up of several different locations. The righteous are sent to the Elysian Fields where they dwell in happiness.

 The wicked are sent to Tartarus, where they live in torment. These two areas are seperated by the Plain of Judgement.

 Nowhere in the Septnuagint is the Greek “Hades” mentioned, only the Hebrew “sheol”. It is not until the NT was translated into Greek that these pagan names came into the scripture. Would Yahweh use the names of pagan gods and places? Hades already existed in Greek mythology long before Yahshua came to the earth. The Greek people already held these religious beliefs and understood Greek mythology. The Messianic believers allowed pagan Greek mythology to influence their understanding through teachings and translation. This made for them an easier transition into christianity. This pagan Greek influence still exist within the church and has been accepted by the majority, not knowing where it originated.

 “Hel” was the name for the Norse godess of the underworld.

 Gehenna, is the valley of Hinnom. In the Hebrew “ge”, is a gorge, a valley with steep sides.
 Hinnom is the name of the valley just outside of Jerualem in Yahshua's time, that was a garbage dump.
 
 S7

[shakai7]

Nick,
 
 I see the deception beginning in Eden. Satan is the author of all deception. Ephraim Israel was deceived and sent into captivity. Jewish Israel was deceived and sent into captivity in physical Babylon. While there Jewish Israel had intercourse with the Babylonians, returning from there the Jews brought a bastard religion back to Jerusalem, (Pardon my French), the offspring of their union.

 Ephraim Israel had done the same thing among the nations and were totally lost into paganism.

The Messiah had come and was sacrificed for their sin, they were called to the Truth He came to deliver. His diciples received the Truth, but very soon after He left satan began to work his deception among the believers. From the Jewish believers, satan began to lie about the free pardon that Yahshua had given, and from the non Jewish believers satan began to corrupt the Truth with pagan interpretation and teachings. Even the true leaders of the flock had their own disagreements with each other. As the assembly grew larger they had to face more and more believers coming in from pagan backrounds.The first believers were mostly Jews, from the OT backround. As they began to be out numbered by believers from pagan gentile backrounds, and more and more of their pagan customs
and religious beliefs were incorporated into the assembly, the Jewish customs and traditions were removed. Most of this happened through the Roman Church. Everything of Hebraic origin was removed and the whore was born. More and more she evolved into what she is today. Along the way she had daughters who began to protest and split from her, but only a small bit.

 The Spirit safeguarded the integrity of the Word, it is still with us today. The combination of OT and NT with His guidance that only through Yahshua can we find Truth. The ability to research church history and see where and how certain changes took place. To look into the meanings of the original language and see how translations from pagan cultures influenced their understanding. The true names all had meanings related to them that were lost in translation, just as the Hebrew had deeper meanings sometimes not understood by gentile translators.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,

  He was never called Jesus Christ when He was here. That is a  substitute name from the whore's system.
Ieasus Christos, appeared in the Greek translation of the original Hebrew writings replacing, “Yahshua Ha Mochiach”. Even if Christ is a Greek translation for Mochiach “anointed”, Ieasus is not the Greek translation for “Yahshua”. Names are not translated, they should be transliterated, attempting to retain the original sound. That is the normal practice with names. Ekklessia is the Greek word meaning congregation, it is not a personal name.

 Yahshua was a Jew, He did not have a Greek name or title. He and His diciples were raised Hebrew, they spoke Hebrew. Hebrew was their native language, It was the language of their religion, it was the language they had received from Yahweh, and in which the Scriptures were written. The name “Yahweh”, is a Hebrew name.

 But even if Ieasus is the Greek translation for Yahshua, why did the English transliterate the Greek name rather than the Hebrew name into English? The English form of Yahshua is Joshua, not Jesus.
Jesus, as pronounced in English is not even correct. Jesus should be pronounced yey-sooce.

 If Yahshua was the Mochiach, the Messiah, in the English form, how are His followers called “Christians”? In the original Hebrew, they were not called Christians, only in the Greek did they become Christians. The whore's fornication with the Greek.

 The Hebrew could have been translated into the Greek, retainning the Hebrew names and titles for the Messiah and His followers, without corruption, just as the Jewish translators had done with the Septuagint. If that was the case, “Christian” would not exist.
 
 There is nothing wrong with translating the Hebrew into other languages, that is nessessary, but the integrity of the Word of Yahweh must be maintained.

  So, any place Christian, or Jesus Christ, appears in the NT, that is a mistranslation, an attempt by the whore to hide the Truth. Her system uses those names. Her daughters carry on with that corruption.

 I see not only the Roman Church, as being the whore of Babel, but I see the whole church system, her daughters, protesting but continuing to inccorporate the her pagan lies and customs into their systems.

 Babylon claiming to the bride, is not stated outright, but implied by through the scripture.

 Babylon, name of a city. She is a whore who has committed fornication with the kings of the earth.

 New Jerusalem name of the Holy city. She is a virgin, who is pure.

 Babylon is dressed as a queen, adorned in precious stones and pearls.

 New Jerusalem is dressed as a bride, represents virginity, she shone with the glory of Elohim and it's brilliance was like a very precious jewel, like jasper clear as crystal. (Not mere stones but Elohim's Glory).

 Babylon is fallen, and all nations have drunk of the maddening wine of her fornications. (intercourse with pagans)

 “Come out of her my people”. come out of this lying false system, who has replaced Yahweh's Truth with substitutes.

 “In her heart she boasts, I sit a Queen, I am not a widow and I will never mourn.” “In one day her plagues will over take her, death mourning and famine;”

 New Jerusalem, ” Now the dwelling of Elohim is with men and and He will live with them. They will be His people, and Elohim Himself will be with them and be their Elohim.” “There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain;”

 They are opposites, yet many of Elohim's people will think this whore is the bride and will have to be warned to get out of her, or suffer along with her and her daughters.
 

 Yahshua agreed He was the Messiah and Chepha confirmed it.

 I agree that Israel was the called out assembly, and that now, Jewish Israel, Eprhaim Israel and true gentiles who answer that call, and the call out from this whore, Babylon, are Yahweh's chosen congregation.

 No offense taken and I hope I have not offended with my harsh words.

Shalom,
S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,

 Strongs grk# 1577, Calling out, meeting, congregation, Jewish synagogue.

Ex. 20:5
Duet. 7:6
1Peter 2:9, They are all speaking of the same called out people. There are not two groups of called out. They are not Jews and certainly not Christians. How can I get “Christian” from being a follower of a Hebrew Messiah? Christian comes from the Greek word “Christianos”. The Messiah was a Jew, Scripture was written originally in Hebrew, before being translated into Greek. Why then would His assembly, have a Greek title? The Greek pagans first called the Messianic believers, “Christianos”. The “Church” continues, part of the fornication with the world.

 It is not, “what is in a word”, but rather “what is in the Word”. “Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written, because the time is near.”

 To know who she and her daughters are, you must take notice of her. She is not alone, she has daughters who are whores also. Most open hearted bible students agree on who this whore represents, but do not attempt to identify her offspring. In order to understand their identity, one must clearly know who and why she is what she is.

 “Babylon the Great” is her title, and her children are whores and the abominations of the earth. She sits on her throne, claiming to be the bride of Messiah. She has had intercourse with the kings of the earth. She is royally dressed, and holds a gold cup full of the abominations and filthiness of her whoring. She is drunk on the blood of the saints and witnesses of Yahshua. She is a religious system who rides on the “beast”, gentile pagan nations satan uses to oppose Yahweh's called out congregation, and whom she has fornicated with.

 In Daniel 7: one of the horns of this beast speaks words against the Most High, and intend to change the “appointed times” and “law”. This she has accomplished by substituting Elohim's Holy Feast, which were appointed by Yahweh, with the pagan hol-i-days from nations of her fornication. She has replaced Elohim's Sabbath with the Roman sun worship day. She has fooled the world into believing that the Law of Yahweh is burdensome and harsh and has been abolished. Her protesting, fornicating daughters carry on in her image.

S7

[shakai7]

Nick,
I forgot to mention that I did not know that fact about the tribe of Benjamin being disproportionally left handed. I wonder if their may be significance to that?

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,

 All true.  Some Pharisees did believe in Yahshua but many did not. They fulfilled what had to be done in order for us to be redeemed. The Samaritans also did what prophecy said about them.

 Yahshua was just passing through, staying as he found good soil, and leaving when it became
shallow and rocky.
  John 11:54 “Therefore Yahshua no longer moved publicly about the Jews. Instead He withdrew to a region near the desert, to a village called Ephraim, where He stayed with His disiples.”

 Perhaps a picture of Judah's rejection and Ephraim's acceptance.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hi,Nick,

Yes that is true about the Pharisees, I think they were the teachers of the law, they interpreted the law, of their own mind, not by the Spirit. Yahshua said to do what they say but not what they do. Their interpretation was in fear that Israel would be punished again for covenant breaking, so they added many hard regulations to Elohim's law through their interpretation. Also they wanted control over the general population.
 That is true, they held a true position, they just were not led by Elohim.

S7

[shakai7]

Hi Nick,
 Sadducees and Pharisees I've never thought much about them.  I do not think they were tribal based, they were of post Babylon corruption. I have heard that they were pawns of the Roman government. I do not really know from where they got their authority. This is speculation but I think maybe they were self-appointed experts of the law. I guess that is an area I need to look into.
 Zedekaiah was the last king of Judah, and his sons were killed before him. Harod was not decended from the royal family.
 
 When the tribe of Benjamin had gone to war against Israel they lost their right to their land, and  lived among the other tribes. Judges 20.  describes the war between Israel and Benjamin.

 2nd Chron. 11. Ephraim Israel is rebelling against Judah, here the Levites and Benjamin join with  Reheboam king of Judah, against Jereboam, king of Israel and the tribes loyal to him. From this time throughout the rest of OT history, the house of Judah consisted of the tribes of Judah, Levi, who were the temple priest, and at least part of  if not most of Benjamin.
 

 I also see that the Samaritans did have a special place in the NT, I think because they did recognize their ancestry as sons of Jacob, but they were not accepted by Juduism.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,
 I thought that was what you thought I would say. Yes some did return after time, I think maybe some of the Samaritans, in Yahshua's time were decended from Ephraim. Samaria was the capitol of the northern tribes.
 The Jews had low opinion of the Samartians in the time of Yahshua. When Yahshua went to Samaria and talked to the woman at the well, she claimed that, our father Jacob gave them the well. She, a Samaritan claimed ancestry to Jacob. Yahshua did not correct her. She recognized that Yahshua was a prophet, and she knew that the Messiah is coming and will explain everything.

 Read John 4 with this in mind.

 I believe this woman and the others who came to be taught were those who's decendants returned to Samaria from their Assyrian captivity. But most of Israel was assimilated into the gentile population.
That is what Elohim said would happen, throughout the OT, until He would gather them back.

 Most of the Jews who were taken into Babylon did no return to Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity. Millions were taken captive into Babylon but just over 69,000 returned.
Nehemaiah 7:6-73

 They did not go into oblivion, they were scattered, by the plan of Yahweh, he knew where they were, and His plan was for their return.

 You say, you can not see how they lost their identity as people of Elohim.

 That was their characteristic, it was what Ephraim had done to be cursed into the nations seperated from Yahweh to start with.
 Jereboam, in time, rejected what Yahweh had offered him and set up his own religious system. They began to incorporate pagan practices into this substitute system. That was the character
of Ephraim, rejection of Yahweh's covenant and replacing it with pagan substitutes. Just what they were doing when Yahshua came, and what the church is doing now. A leoperd can't change it's spots. Once a pig is cleaned, it returns to wallowing in the mud.

S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,

 You might be getting sick of this, but I see Judah as the son who has remained with his father and Ephraim who has taken his inheritance. Ephraim, who is the younger, went out to foreign countries, gave up everything that he had received from his Father. There was a famine in the country where he had hired himself out to feed pigs. He was living as a gentile. But because of hunger he decided that he was better off in his Father's house, even as a servant. In Ephraim's case this was spiritual famine, he, living among gentile pagans. He went home and begged for forgiveness. His Father welcomed him but his brother was jealous for the reception he received. His Father told him, you are always with me and everything I have is yours, but this brother of yours was dead and now is alive again, he was lost and is found.
 My friend who was attending a Messianic Jewish congregation a few years ago, addressed the Jewish leaders of that congregation. He is not a Jew, but when he told them that he believed he was from Ephraim, they rejected him saying , NO, you can not be.
 When told he me about that, this parable of the prodigal son came to my mind. Messianic Judaism rejects those who feel that they are from the other house of Israel.

 I think this parable also represents the individual lost sheep returning to Abba.

S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,
I think that the seed of Abraham is physical. That the covenants were made with them. But true gentiles receive equal blessings through their acceptance of Yahshua as Messiah, and true physical Israelites, who do not accept Yahshua as Messiah are still under the curse of the law and without Yahshua they are without hope. Many who are physical Israel, both Judah and Ephraim, will not accept Yahshua and therefore remain without reconciliation.
 
My interpretation:
 Hagar represents the Religious Jews who rejected the redemption from the curse of the law, offered through Messiah.

 Jerusalem from above represents those who have been set free from the curse of the law. Jews, Ephraim and true gentiles who have received redemption through Messiah.
 As he said, this can be taken figuratively.

 Gal.4:26 “But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
              for it is written;
              Be glad o barren woman, who bares no children,
              break forth and cry aloud,
              you who have no labor pains,
              because more are the children of the desolate woman
              than who has a husband.

 This comes from Isaiah 54. Read the whole chapter, here it speaks of Judah and Ephraim..
The woman who has a husband is the house of Judah. The barren woman is Ephraim Israel who was the divorced wife of Elohim, who was scattered among the nations. Elohim is now going forgive her, by the blood of Messiah, bring her back and take her for His bride. She was barren and desolate, no children. But when she is redeemed by her Husband, she finds that her children are coming to her from the east and west and south and north. That she has so many children they will cry for more space to live.(Is.49:20)

 Isaiah chapters 49, 54, 60, 62. All these talk about this.

 On the gentile issue; It is my understanding that any true gentile, can receive the same blessings as Israel when they come to Messiah through the covenant Yahweh has made with Israel. The world will be blessed by Abraham's seed, by both his physical decendants and the one seed, Messiah.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,

 Yes, part of the old covenant was that any foreigner who who wants to serve Yahweh will become Israel. I have written about that in earlier post.
 Is. 56:3 “Let no foreigner who has bound himself to Yahweh say, Yahweh will surely exclude me from His people,”
6.”and foreigners who bind themselves to Yahweh to serve Him, to love the name of Yahweh, and to worship Him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to My covenant, these I will bring to My holy mountain and give them joy in My house of prayer.”

 Ez.47;21, Even before Israel was dispersed, Yahweh had made a provision for aliens to become Israel.
 If they were to live among the tribes of Israel, they must keep the covenant made with Israel, serving Yahweh, worshipping Him, love His holy name and including keeping Yahweh's Sabbath. Then they will join in Israel's inheritance, because they are now Israel, no longer gentile aliens.

  Now take that to the book of Romans and Ephesians.

The tribe of Benjamin had gone to war against the other eleven tribes and was defeated. The rest of Israel killed all of Benjamin's wives and children and left the men of Benjamin without decendants.
The leaders of the eleven tribes came together and agreed to prohibit the men of Benjamin from marrying their daughters. They decided that they could not leave their brothers without decendants so they allowed the men of Bejamin to kidnap foreign women from a river where they were washing.
These were to be their wives, and their children would become Bejamin's decendants.

I have not said that every time the word gentile is mentioned it is speaking of Ephraim Israel, there are times when it refers to true gentiles. But the overall message from OT to NT is that Yahweh has hidden His people, Ephraim, among the gentiles, seperated from Him, as a curse to them. But by doing so He is keeping His promise to Abraham, that his seed would fill the nations. Also Yahweh has hidden His people from satan, who wants to destroy them. Yahweh hid Moshe right under Pharoah's nose, in Pharoah's own house, being cared for by Pharoah's daughter, while satan used him to kill all the new born male children.
 He also hid Yahshua, at His birth, again in Egypt, while satan used Harod to kill all the male children.
 In Rev.12  we find Elohim hiding a woman wearing a crown with twelve stars on her head, she had given birth to a male child who would rule the nations, Elohim was hiding her from the serpent.
 Who is this woman? She is the opposite of Babylon.
S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,

  I understand that it seems a stretch, I once understood it as you do. When a friend first told me of his understanding, gentiles are Israel, I rejected it too. I thought it was rediculous, a contradiction.
We both had studied the OT to gain a deeper understanding of the NT and had seen that Ephraim was scattered among the nations. But I still could not see gentiles being Ephraim.

 I remembered reading in Romans 9:24-26, Paul speaking to Roman believers, seemingly gentiles as I understood it, but the quote was from the prophet Hoshea. Word for word from Hoshea. Yet Hoshea was speaking to, the people of Israel, about, the people of Israel, and what Elohim was going to do with them. He even had Hoshea marry a prostitute so that Hosea could truly feel what Elohim felt about His wife, Israel. The entire book of Hoshea explains this.

 I thought, how can Elohim make this prophecy to Israel in Hoshea and Paul claim it's fulfillment to gentiles? That was when the realization came to me. Ephraim Israel was scattered among the gentiles, and it was they who Paul was addressing. Only through my study from the OT could that connection be made. Yahweh knew the ending when He spoke through Hoshea, so He knew who Paul would be talking to.
 He is the same yesterday, today and forever. What He says, will come to pass, and it did.

 Even though you don't see this, I have enjoyed studying and being free to make my case.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hi Nick,
 I have never said or implied becomming a Jew under the OT. I am not a Jew, can not become one, don't want to become one.

 Eph.2: To my understanding is speaking of Ephraim. From NT understanding only, as is the church, they interpret it as best they can with their limited resources. The church, with it's diluted greek influence has taken away all Hebrewness from the NT.

Elohim seperated the whole house of Israel into two kingdoms. A northern kingdom and a southern kingdom. The southern kingdom consisted of Judah, Levi. The northern kingdom consisted of the remaining tribes. Elohim spoke to Jereboam, who He made King over the northern tribes called Ephraim. Elohim re-established a covenant with Jereboam and if he and his kingdom would keep the covnant they would recieve all the blessings. The people of Eprhaim would still have to go to Jerusalem, which was part of Judah, twice a year to keep feast. Jereboam became frightened that his people would return to Judah and to the temple in Jerusalem, and leave his rule. Jereboam set up his own religious system, with it's own priest, not from the tribe of Levi, it's own holy days and sabbath day. He set up his own pagan temples and places of worship borrowing from the pagans.

                        Sounds familiar!

 This was adultery to Elohim, so He allowed the nation of Assyria to come down and conquer the northern kingdom and take them off into captivity. Only Judah was left.
  The people were asimilated into Assyria and were eventually dispersed into other nations, where they lived as gentiles. No more Torah, no more covenant, no more circumcision, which was a physical sign given to the people of Israel through Abraham. They had no more prophets to warn them, no more communion with Yahweh. They were just as pagan gentiles.

   The southern tribe, Judah which was still in Jerusalem, still under the covenant with Elohim, even though thet did not keep it. 130 years later, give or take a few years, Judah was taken into Babylon.
They returned to Jerusalem, bringing  Babylonian corruption with them.

 In the time of Yahshua the Jews of Judah who were circumcised and lived under a corrupt version of Yahweh's covenant, believed that you must be circumcised to become a child of Elohim. They could not associate with the uncircumcised, whether true gentile, or Ephraim. They looked upon Ephraim as if they were gentiles. From the time of their division, centuries earlier, there was emnity between the two houses of Israel. They almost went to war against each other just after their breakup, but Elohim stopped it. But there remained “bad blood” between them. With Ephraim living as gentiles, without covenant and uncircumcised, Judah would have nothing to do with them. That is why Peter had to be
corrected by Elohim with the tablecloth vision.

 My understanding:
 Speaking to Ephraim who were living as gentiles, now through Messiah can return to the Family of Yahweh.
 “Remember that at that time you were seperate from Messiah, excluded from the citizenship in Israel;” ( how could gentiles be citizens of Israel, since Israel was a family of people related by birth?), “foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope, without Elohim, in the world.”  (sounds like Ephraim's curse)
 “But now in Messiah Yahshua you who were once far away have been brought near through the blood of Messiah.”
 “For He Himself is our peace, Who has made the two one and has desroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility.”
 (He has made the two what, one?)
 “By abolishing in His flesh the law with it's commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in Himself one new man out of the two,” (what two?) “thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile them both to Yahweh through the stake, by which He put to death hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.” (who was far away and who was near?)
“For through Him we both have access to the Father.”
 
  “Consequently you are no longer foreigners or aliens, but fellow citizens with Elohim's people and members of Elohim's  household, built on the foundation of the prophets and aposles, with Messiah Yahshua being the chief conerstone.”

 I see the two, as being Judah and Ephraim, who had been seperated, being made one as promised by the peophets.
Yahshua did this by freeing them from the requirements of the law with His blood. And through Messiah Yahshua all who will accept His redemption become a new man, free from what held them away from Elohim, and are now fellow citizens and family.
 
 Which takes me back to the Sabbath, it is a sign between Elohim and His people, Israel, forever.

 Circumcision is still required, only now it is of the heart.

 Some of us are Ephraim Israel and some are true gentiles, we must each be led as the Spirit of Yahshua puts it in out hearts. We must be convinced in our heart and act on that.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hi,

 For the others who believe that they are of Ephraim Israel I can not speak. For myself, I was drawn to the OT, in an attempt to better undersand the NT. I was in a full gospel non-denominational church.
I always studied the NT and found that what my church was teaching, I had a different understading of scriptures.  I suspected that the church was influenced by pagan religions. It rejected so much that we know came from the true God, even if it was OT, and accepted so much from pagan religions.
 The more I studied the OT I realized that Elohim was not finished with Israel. That all the prophetic books were written to and about Israel.
 Then I found other people, who had the same desire and were drawn in the same direction as myself.

 “How can anyone tell if he is of Ephraim or an ordinary gentile?”  For me it was an understanding in my heart. That understanding came after deeply studying Israel's history, what happened to that divided nation and prophecies for their restoration. Then bringing that new education into my NT study changed my whole understanding of the plan of Elohim. Finding others who have the same understanding, the same revelations.
Ephraim Israel was scattered among the nations. Yahweh promised to gather them back after provision was made for their sin. Yahshua comes, dies, sends His shepherds to gather the lost sheep of Israel. He called His sheep, by His own word they would hear His voice and recognize it. Who heard His voice? Me and you along with countless others. Why did we listen? Maybe because we are His Sheep, and He said that His sheep are Israel. From OT to NT, it just all comes together.

Someone who does not see this revelation, maybe they are gentile. It may only be for those who are decended from Jacob.
 S7

[shakai7]

Hello, Nick
 Yes I do agree, the spiritual rebirth will happen first. That is what has begun now, what I have written about so much, the awakening of the lost sheep of Israel, a rebirth spoken of in Eze. 37. Initiated by the sacrifice of the Messiah, making it all possible.

 I agree that the people of Israel will be gathered back to their own land. Their original land mass is much much larger than the little, man made state called Israel, today. Mostly Jews have returned to the land at this time. Many prople, who are of the other tribes that are scattered among the nations are becomming aware that they are of the other house of Israel, Ephraim. They are turning back to the OT to learn about their own history, realizing now that it is their history, and that they are not gentiles, but only living among them.

 When Messiah returns, the good shepherd will then gather all His sheep back to their original lands.
He will place His Sanctuary among them forever, He will rule from Jeruaslem and all nations will come before Him. He will rule for 1000 years from there. This will be the true restored kingdom of Israel.

This is what all the books of the prophets are speaking about. Isaiah (Yesha-YAH-hu), Jeremiah (Yiremi-YAH-hu), Hoshea, Amos, Ezeki-EL, Zechariah (Zekar-YAH)….
 If a person would read these books, understanding the the two house issue, it would become clear.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hello Nick,
 The gate “process” I have never really researched it deeply. I looked into it this evening and this is my understanding.
   John 10

  The watchman: Represents the prophets and their writings. Eze. 3:17 and 33:7 call the prophet
                        Ezekiel “watchman of Israel”. Hoshea 9:18 “the prophet along with my Elohim is the
                        watchman over Ephraim.”
  The sheep pen: Represents a form of captivity, place where they are held with no way out. Possibly
                        being held under the Law by sin.
  The Shepherd:  Someone sent to His sheep by Elohim.
  The Gate:        Yahshua.

  Before Yahshua came and laid down His life,the sheep were being held in their pen without a gate.
There was no way out. All who came before Yahshua climbed in the pen by other means.
They were all thieves and robbers and came to steal, kill and destroy. Eze:34 speaks of these false shepherds.
 
 The watchman, (prophet) opens the Gate by his words, revealing that Yahshua is the Messiah. The books of the prophets, show that Yahshua is the promissed Messiah, and that through Him, (the Gate)
the shepherd, ( one sent by Elohim) can lead his sheep out of the pen to pasture, to Yahweh, Abba Father. The sheep recognize the shepherd's voice and he goes ahead of them and the sheep follow him. They will not follow a stranger.
 
 The prophet did not open a gate for any who came before Yahshua because the prophet's words revealed that they were not the Messiah.

 I understand it to say that Yahshua is the “Gate”, the only way out of the sheep pen, the only way out from captivity to freedom and to Yahweh.

 S7

[shakai7]

Hello,
 Everyone, no matter who you are, must go through the gate of the Good Shepherd. It is Him and only Him who can set you free from the sin.

 Hebrews 9:12 “He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves; but He entered the Most Holy  Place once, for all, by His own blood having obtained eternal redemption.”

15. “For this reason, Messiah is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called might receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.”

 I do not know why only 144,000. Maybe it is figurative, stating 12,000 from each tribe, or maybe because this is a special group who come out the Jacob's trouble, (tribulation).

Rev. 8:9-10, speaks of people from every nation and tribe standing before the throne. Most of the   12 tribes will be among this multitude.

 These 144,000 seem to have a special place with the Messiah. They sing a new song that no one else knows. They have the father's name written on their foreheads, and they follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

 Just my thought, but possibly they might be those in, Rev. 20:4-, those who had been beheaded for their testimony for Yahshua, they had not worshipped the beast or his image or received his mark on their foreheads or hands. Anyway, whether they are those are not, they have a special position with Messiah.

I am going to have look into that subject.

 Sorry that I make my post so long, I try to explain my thoughts and probably it more confusing by so many words.

     Shakai7

[shakai7]

Hi Nick,

 Some people who answer the call of Messiah are of Ephaim Israel, and some are not. Some people who hear this word of lost Israel, believe it to be true, and some people do not. Your understanding of this is different than mine. Each must believe what is in our heart. I feel from your replies that you do not completly understand my attempts to explain. Much of what you say I said, is the opposite of what I meant. I have a hard time finding the correct words to be clear.

  “All have to go through the same gate;”  That is what I said, only in different words.

  My statements: “anyone who accepts Messiah Yahshua as savior will be saved.”
                        “Yahshua died to pay the price for Israel's sin, so that they and all mankind can    
                          be saved.”
                        “But the sheep consist of the decendants of Judah and Ephraim and also non-Israel
                         people who have accepted Yahshua as savior.”
                        “all gentile people are not Israel, but they are all equal to Israel through Messiah;”

                          Messiah Yahshua is the gate.

 When scripture says He is gathering Israel back from all the nations , that is not talking about the 1948  existance of the state of Israel. The majority of that state do not believe that Yahshua is Messiah.
This is speaking of the dispersed being brought back into communion with Yahweh through Yahshua.

  All Israel is not Israel. But all Israel will be saved.

 The Jews did nothing for centuries, but the Messiah came to them first. for the first eight years all the followers were Jews. Elohim made a promise to Abraham, it was unconditional, no matter what Israel would do or not do, Elohim would keep that promise.

 I did not say the old covenant was sufficient.

 “But the ministry Yahshua received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is mediator is superior to the old one, and is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have sought for another.”

 The old covenant did not provide salvation, it only revealed a person's sin and condemmed them.
It made clear the need for a savior.

 This savior would be provided in the new covenant with “better promises.” Total forgiveness and eternal life.

 There is a new and old covenant, but the new testament scripture did not exist in those times, the letters were just being written. The only scripture was the old testament writings.
It was these that the Bereans studied and tested what they heard.
Man took these , Elohim inspired, writings and letters, many centuries later and assembled them into a book called the new testament. No Word of Yahweh, Old or new will ever become obsolete.

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