No I didn't read that in your debate and your view has to be that these father's were wrong, which is possible of course. For assuredly, many of these fathers were quite clear on their position of Christ existing in the form God as the Word that was with God in the beginning. And why am I not surprised, because this is the conclusion that both…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,18:10)t8, if Jehovah is called “the god of gods”, doesn't that title, in and of itself, INSIST that there must be other gods that Jehovah is the god OF?Yes, but if we consider that the Pharisees were gods because they held the seat of Moses, then that is one thing, but to call Nicodemus a god is quite another. If…[Read more]

Could be. I have never thought about it too much, but assumed it was God talking to the Word that he made the Universe through.I don't have a definite view on that one, but thanks for opening up that possibility to me.

Quote (jb2u @ June 30 2013,09:13)I do not believe that the early fathers taught this, if of course we are referring to the Bible. The first created being was Adam; however, the first BORN of God was Jesus. Keep in mind, Adam was NOT born, he was created..so was EVE. So yes, the first born, Jesus, is VERY SPECIAL!!Since I am referring to all the…[Read more]

Genesis 3:5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Who are these gods?Is this saying, they shall be as God, or shall be as gods?If the latter, then yes that would likely be the sons of God IMO. But it could mean God.

Quote (942767 @ June 16 2013,16:11)Mike, the scriptures state that there is “a first Adam”, and “a last Adam”. Adam = man.Not sure of your point here, but if you just mean man, then Jesus was not the second man. Obviously Adam is referring to the Man. The one whom men originate. You probably agree with that. Not saying you aren't.

Agreed Kerwin. Each book in the bible is different. You only have to read what each book says about itself.The Word of the Lord to…Then I saw what looked like a….I thought it good to write an eyewitness account…All can be inspired, but not all is automatic writing so to speak, or pure recording of a vision. You can be inspired for example to…[Read more]

jb2u,Thanks for showing us what you believe and why. My post below will do the same so you can know from where I am coming from.I am open minded about when Jesus became the son of God.As for pre-existence, I believe that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died for our sins, was resurrected to the right-hand of God…[Read more]

Ed J, he did give examples where the AKJV basically faltered due to being translated from newer and consequently more altered text. New translations have the luxury of the Dead Sea Scrolls and older manuscripts. You have to admit that the AKJV is not perfect and far from it.

Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2013,22:16)I don't see how any of those are problematic. On the contrary, slight variances in eyewitness accountsonly adds to the overall authenticity of the story. Because forgerieswould certainly make sure that there is no discrepancies in any part of the story.Agreed. The gospels are eye witness accounts and they show a…[Read more]

BTW, my view with the debate with Kathi is that you did her a favour. You were easily dispelling the delusion of her teaching, but she has successfully used this argument to detract from your original good work. Perhaps you could focus this subject here and get back to pulling down the error of her doctrine. It would help keep things focused and…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ June 27 2013,16:17)Let's see why the angel, Gabriel, said that Jesus would be called the Son of God!!Luke 1:35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.The…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ June 27 2013,16:17)“before all ages” refers to God, not Jesus.I would argue that it is referring to God our Savior (as you say) but through Jesus Christ our Lord. And that this is true before all ages, now and forevermore! In other words, God through Jesus Christ for all ages. Not just the ages after his coming in the flesh.Your view…[Read more]

jb2u, the following scripture talks about God and Christ in the context of now, in the future, and before all ages.Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.How does this sit with your view because it clearly states that glory, authority,…[Read more]

Physicists will tell you that the Universe had a beginning. However, I am the first to admit that scientists get things wrong all the time. That said, you are arguing against their current belief which I don't have a problem with.Physicists also say that everything you see in the Universe today, was predetermined at the moment of the Big Bang. The…[Read more]

Yeah I look forward to this. I think all of us are looking for the truth and I know that all of us give full answers when necessary and do not avoid questions because they do not agree with them. I only ignore questions because I haven't read them yet or they are too much work to answer and put them off till I have time to give a good and complete…[Read more]

Quote (princess @ June 21 2013,17:03)How about some cranberry orange scones, side of lemon curd?Feel free to bring them along.