Quote (jb2u @ July 04 2013,10:47)Why do you think that over and over the apostles refer to Jesus as “the man” and “this man”? And yet, they never talk about the preexistence of Jesus?Because it was Jesus coming in the flesh that opened the way for his death and salvation of those who dwell in flesh. The New Testament is fixated on salvation and…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 04 2013,09:15)To me, verse 8 is a restatement of verse 6/7, just in a different order.I see it more as..1) He was created in the image of God. (in the womb)Let me clarify. You are saying that existing in the form of God means being created in the image of God in the womb. That means you existed in the form of God too.Four yes/no…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:17)Right now, I wish we could all leave this other stuff behind for a minute, and focus on Phil 2.Fair enough.I usually like to start a conversation as being wide and then hone in on the individual points later. That way you show the connection to begin with rather than debate each scripture with the other guy…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2013,14:41)Deuteronomy 32:17They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.Are these demons being called gods by Moses?  Or do you suppose Moses was calling them “qualitatively god”?Yes they were qualitatively gods because people were…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2013,14:37)Jehovah is called “god” many times in the NT where there is no definite article written. During those times, is He being called “qualitatively god”?Jehovah is literally and qualitatively God.Satan is literally and qualitatively the Devil/devil.Adam is literally Adam and qualitatively adam.I could refer to…[Read more]

I agree that you can never really know given that many people say they know, but are so different that they obviously believe different things.

I know when I believed in the Trinity, I never understood it and rarely talked about it. But I certainly believed that Jesus Christ was the son of God and the messiah. On top of that, God moved in my…[Read more]

Quote (princess @ June 30 2013,03:11)Becareful T8 by using the nothing to something. Remember, your god was once unknown to the universe. Then along came man and choose the name, book, gender and attributes of your god. All the wonder and awe of the unknown was taken away. Now books are slammed, words are thrown around and blood is splattered. The…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2013,15:17)Are these beloved spirit sons of God “false gods”? Are they only “so-called gods”? Are they only “qualitatively gods”?Yes they are theos in a qualitative sense. Each is not a literal God. If that is the case, I could call myself a god if I believe that I am a son of God.Are you a god?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,15:02)Why do you buck against this so hard?  If one is considered or called “theos”, then that one is being considered as and called “a god”.In Greek they would be called The god if it were referring to a particular one.Thus if the text doesn't use the definite article when talking of one, then it is probably not…[Read more]

Quote (princess @ June 30 2013,03:11)*Christians* will tell you that the Universe had a beginning. However, I am the first to admit that the *Christians* get things wrong all the time. That said, you are arguing against their current belief which I don't have a problem with.I take it from this statement that you disagree with both Christians and…[Read more]

Okay here is what you believe.The Universe at the moment is the latest version of something eternal and non-living. At the moment it is the Universe, could be something else, billions or trillions of our Earth years from now.This is your belief system I take it.Yes / No ?

Most who believe in the Trinity would also probably believe in the truth regarding God being the Father, and Jesus being the son.

Given that, you may be able to help them reconcile this difference or contradiction in their belief.

Whoever resists questioning the Trinity and say it is beyond question because it is beyond our understanding, I…[Read more]

Yes we do need fellowship. And it is good to dwell or fellowship with like-minded brothers and sisters.

But yes we live in hard times in this respect. Most Christians are under the traditions of men in one respect or another.

If people believe that Jesus is the son of God and that the Father is Almighty God, then they believe the truth. If…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 01 2013,10:55)Adam was created sinless. Jesus was born sinless.Both were in the image of God. One grasped at equality. One did not.The first brought death. The second, because of His obedience, brought life!!Another good point. Again I will look into it when the time is right. Usually when something like this is shown to me, I…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 01 2013,10:55)“in the form of God” in Greek and “in the image of God” in Hebrew is the same.Thanks for that. I never made that connection. I will bear that in mind and look into it when I am led there.

I strongly agree with what Mike says here. There is an order here and to take your view (jb2u), you have to agree with the order, except the first point, that he existed in the form of God.It's like the order of headship between God and the woman. You can take that order of headship, but have to make an exception when it comes to Jesus.I believe…[Read more]

Mike, I noticed that 4Thomas piped in here. This is easy to do due to the lack of t8 and Mike in the topic name or description. If you want to change the description to say the debate is between you and me, then you can do that using the 'Edit this Topic' link at the bottom of the page.Up to you.

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,10:39)2) The “AKJV Bible” was Authorized by the crown (James I) – acting in behalf of  YHVH.Thanks for keeping this humerous Ed J, as the topic states.So all that was authorised by the crown (James 1) is on behalf of YHVH?By that faulty logic, his witch hunts were also on behalf of YHVH. Here is what you must also be…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 01 2013,11:14)This is NOT to say that other such “believers” of the trinity were not already spouting about a preexistent Jesus, as surely there were, but this is the earliest writing we have. However, notice that Martyr did NOT quote other “believers” works that “prove” a preexistent Jesus. He did not even quote scripture!! He…[Read more]