I copied this from a post on another Forum. I though it might be useful.Edmund Schlink, The Doctrine of Baptism, page 28:“The baptismal command in its Matthew 28:19 form can not be the historical origin of Christian baptism. At the very least, it must be assumed that the text has been transmitted in a form changed by the church.”The Tyndale New…[Read more]

I am still in the process of answering Adam Pastor, But I though I might add this one in before I forget about it. I was reading some of Ignatius of Antioch's writings (ca. 110 A.D).He says the following:……..The Evangelists, too, when they declared that the one Father was the only true God, did not omit what concerned our Lord, but wrote: “In…[Read more]

To david999I think the difficulty with this one is that time itself was most likely created and we know that all creation was made through Christ by God. But I think that in the beginning was God and inside himself there was and is wisdom and truth. But God expressed this wisdom and truth as the Logos so that the Logos was with God as a seperate…[Read more]

If all things were created through Christ, then he pre-existed Heaven (if Heaven is created). I would of thought that a body is a vehicle that gives you access to a realm. E.g. A body from earth for earth and a body from heaven for heaven.So perhaps before creation Christ didn't have a body, but was a Spirit. Not sure of this and I am only…[Read more]

Just a couple of things for now:1) Our bodies are of this earth and God is going to create a new Earth and Heavens where sin has never dwelt. So a completely new creation, even our bodies it seems.2) Also the reason why our hands stop when we clap them  rather than going through each other is not because the atoms are touching, rather it is the…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 13 2004,16:15)Hi, Surely the terms “The Logos” and the “Son of God” are interchangeable. Jesus called himself both Son of God and Son of Man. Are those terms interchangeable?  I think not as they speak of different times and origins. Jesus used the second term about himself far more frequently than the first. So what…[Read more]

Yes Nick I have seen this many times in my life. Where people react to a bad thing, by taking the opposite stance. Often the opposite stance is just as bad. It is human nature to do so and human history is full of it.Take the abuse and second class standing of woman in history and then compare it to it's reaction which is humanism and even…[Read more]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Nov. 09 2004,22:20)“In John 17:5 Jesus asks the Father to give him now the heavenly glory which he had with the Father before the world was. The conclusion that because Jesus possessed a preexistent glory in heaven he must also have preexisted personally in heaven is taken too hastily. This is proven by Matthew 6:20 (‘Lay up…[Read more]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Nov. 09 2004,22:20)Now take that information to John 8:58 and Jesus says, “Before Abraham was, I am he.” He has already stated repeatedly that he is the Messiah, and he never said he was God, which would have been absurd in view of his firm belief in the unitary monotheism of Judaism (Mark 12:28ff).“Before Abraham was, I am he…[Read more]

Yes that's right Nick, there is a difference.If we partake of divine nature, then do we actually become that nature itself. Of course not, we share it, we receive it. Our identity/soul can either be lead by the flesh or by the Spirit. But the fact remains that we are neither, but we are our soul or identity. This teaching that says that Jesus is…[Read more]

Here is a strange one.I was driving a car from the airport after I picked up my brother. I am a good driver and had a transport business but I was momentarily distracted and saw that the car in front of me had stopped. I jammed on the breaks but I hit the car in front of me and was unsure of the damage but was sure that there would be some…[Read more]

To Adam Pastor, (thx for your posts Nick).I will take each point you have made and will also add in scriptures that you haven't mentioned in order to give a full account.At this stage I would like to point out that you have given an explanation for a lot of scriptures that on the surface or due to translational bias say that Jesus pre-existed. Now…[Read more]

To Adam Pastor,Quote (Adam Pastor @ Nov. 10 2004,05:35)I have perused your board well over a year nowSo I am fully aware that you and other contributors subscribe to the Arian viewpoint. Like I said earlier, quite a while back, I presented the viewpoint of the notional/ideal pre-existence of the Messiah … it wasn't well receive.I left it as…[Read more]

Some interesting stuff regarding Arius from Wikipedia (an Open Source encyclopaedia).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian

Hi Nick, I know that Trinitarians and JWs say that Arianism teaches that Jesus was created. I also know that JWs claim to be Arians and they do indeed teach that, But I haven't actually seen the proof that Arius taught that. I know that he argued that Jesus was begotten, but what he also said I am not sure.If he did argue that Jesus was created…[Read more]

Quote But look at what the Father says about HimselfIs 42.1″ Behold My servant whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom MY SOUL delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him” Perhaps this is the difference between God and his Spirit?The Father and his Spirit. i.e. The soul (self) and the Spirit (life).Who knows?

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Nov. 09 2004,10:35)John 1:1-4Were you aware that the majority of English Bibles before the KJV, translated John 1:1-4 as follows …(John 1:1-4)  In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it; and without it was not any…[Read more]

To RR, Quote I will defend what I believe just as you will defend what you believe.But you are not defending what you believe by walking away.But we should always have an answer for what we believe. If we do not, then we should be open to change as we admit by not having an answer that we are not sure and complete in our understanding of what is…[Read more]

To Adam Pastor, But that still doesn't answer the dilema that if the Logos is a part of God's mind, and the flesh is what the Logos became, then Jesus is nothing more than flesh. At least we have a soul that resides in our flesh. It is our soul that God saves and we are also transformed with a spiritual body and we partake of the divine nature.…[Read more]

To Ramblinrose, Quote (Ramblinrose @ Nov. 09 2004,07:33)4491 riza rhiza hrid’-zah apparently a primary word; TDNT-6:985,985; n f AV-root 17; 17 1) a root 2) that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot3) metaph. offspring, progenySo I assume that you are reading the verse as the following:”The shoot and offspring of David”? If so, i…[Read more]