Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,12:15)In the passage that you posted, Heb 1:1-2 is also proof that there were more than one involved in creation.“Involved in creation” isn't the same as saying “CREATED” or “CO-CREATOR”.Heck, I was “involved in creation”, what with being a part of it and all.Let's not add to the scriptures, Kathi.  Scripture says…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,11:49)You still haven't understood that trinitarians or myself are speaking of more than one person, Oh I understand WHAT you claim alright.  I just see no scriptural evidence to support what you claim.Anywhere outside of Bizzaro World, “more than one person” also means “more than one BEING”.Quote (Lightenup @ Jan.…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,11:37)Mike,I do admire how you can have so many conversations going on at one time and keep everyone's perspective straight, some of the time anyway.  In this case, you forget that I do agree that the Son of God was born first (and last for that matter).  So nothing I have said is contrary to that.Then you will a…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,18:31)Pierre,Sorry, those words aren't in those scriptures.KathiActually, they are Kathi.”created me as the first of His works””firstborn of every creature” (who created every creature?)”beginning of the creation BY GOD” (whose creation is Jesus the beginning of?)

Where does Paul say that, Jack?

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 16 2012,16:24)How has the bible uniquely been of practical benefit to humanity in terms of helping human progress in this world?The people who truly believe in and follow God, using the Bible as a guidebook, are the ones who don't join the army, don't go to war, don't kill people, don't steal, don't cheat on their taxes,…[Read more]

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 16 2012,15:59)Are you saying that you now believe the firmament is the entire universe, and that God created it on the second day to “divide the waters” that are on earth from the water at the edge of the universe?Tentatively, YES.Perhaps the planet earth, and the entire area we call “outer space”, was filled with water.…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 16 2012,15:43)Between the two of us, you are the only one claiming you KNOW how life began. I do not know.Well then, hush up and listen to those of us who DO know, okay?The “mechanism” is much too advanced for even your great brain, and therefore was too advanced for Moses and his countrymen. So we are not really given the…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2012,15:34)How do you reconcile the fact that John lists “Jesus” AND “The Word” as two separate things(Rev.20:4)?Ed,You should know that all uses of the word “word” in scripture do not refer to the same thing.  Jesus is called the Word of God because he speaks God's word to the people.See?  I just used “word” as the title for…[Read more]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2012,15:19)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,03:29)Thank you again, Wakeup.We are almost there now.  If THE PERSON Jesus is known as “the Word of God”, and THE PERSON Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world was created, and all things are said to have been created through THE PERSON Jesus ( as well as through…[Read more]

Jack,”Man” refers to “human being”.  There has never been a human being who did not consist of flesh, because that's what human beings are made of.Now you say Jesus doesn't have flesh anymore, and I agree.  But a being WITHOUT flesh is no longer a human being, and therefore no longer a “man”.45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a liv…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 16 2012,14:41)Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. By the way, I predict you will dishonestly ignore my point about Genesis, because it will be too much work for you to come up with a response.Jeremiah 1:5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you a…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 16 2012,15:03)Go for it t8.Tell us how life started.We all already KNOW, Stu. God CREATED, that's how.Now, why don't YOU tell us how YOU know it started?

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 15 2012,21:26)Where was Jesus called wonderful counsellor accept when you force the verses to say it?Isaiah 9:6 NIV For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 16 2012,10:22)When I first brought this issue up with Ed, I asked an open ended question.  I let him (and later you) explain what happened on Day 2 of creation according to the bible.  You and Ed both decided that the firmament in that passage was talking about the atmosphere/sky.  When I challenged you to reconcile th…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 15 2012,19:41)Stu, you get bogged down in the finer details of things, and completely ignore the more weighty foundation and source of all things.If you do not know how everything started, then explaining things now as disproving a creator is ridiculous in the highest order.IMO, even IF scientists were to eventually set up an…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 15 2012,20:05)The horse series was constructed from fossils found in many different parts of the world, and nowhere does this succession occur in one location. The arrangement of the evolution of horse is made by aligning various fossils found in India, South America, North America and Europe, in a series from the smallest to the…[Read more]

Hi barley,I agree with what you've said. The difference is that I don't think Jesus has a flesh body anymore, because:1. He is now a spirit being.2. Flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom.Also, why would those going off into everlasting life in heaven need a body equipped for living on earth?I believe those destined to live on earth will have an…[Read more]

I believe that the verse is spurious, and was added in the third century. This is also what the Catholic Encyclopedia states.I was baptized when I was an infant. My mom was Catholic then, so I assume I was sprinkled with “holy water” and baptized in the formula the Catholics made up in the 3rd century.I am seriously contemplating doing it again…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2012,18:12)Hi Mike,There is nothing to suggest that the Angel spoken of in Exodus 23:20 was (according to you) Jesus.Ed,Re-read my post, and look to the part where I said provided that this “angel of God” even was Jesus……...Don't say “according to me” unless it actually IS “according to me”.As for the rest of your posts,…[Read more]