Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,18:55)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2012,08:34)……..believing that the words “I HAD” refer to something Jesus never actually HAD.Mike is simply bearing false witness to what it is that I truly believe.So then you believe the scriptures that Jesus DID HAVE glory alongside his God before the world began?The person…[Read more]

Hi Pierre,I don't know if they still do this, but they use to give a year-end accounting of all funds. Money taken in, and what it was spent on.They weren't rolling in dough, as I remember. Nor do I remember them ever having a huge surplus.Perhaps David knows more?

For NickThe first post is a list of various scriptures that touch on Jesus' pre-existence.

Yes Nick.  CHRIST Jesus, who was existing in the form of God, but didn't hesitate to become a human and put up with much nonsense, suffering, denial, ridicule, and a painful death to do his part in our salvation.He left great things behind to do the will of his God.  He knew though, that his God was gracious beyond human comprehension, and knew t…[Read more]

Because the children were flesh, Jesus also had to empty himself and become made in the likeness of flesh. But this was long after the universe was created by his God through him.Nick, you apparently don't understand the mind of Christ we are told to have in us. The whole point of Phil 2 is to emphasize how Jesus was in the most cushy position…[Read more]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 14 2012,18:12)Scripture says that God was in Christ, reconciling the World to HIMSELF.HE WAS IN HIM.I know that He is in me…………………Then by your logic, you are also God, Marlin. You apparently think Jesus IS God because God was in him. Therefore, if God is also in you, you must also be God like Jesus was, right?

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 14 2012,17:38)MikeB, It amazes me that YOU want Nick to read point 2. It is you that always wants to correct God's Word.So then all those hundreds of scholars, the VAST majority of whom are people like you, who think Jesus IS the God he is the Son of, have “corrected God's word” by rendering “ego eimi” in John 14:9 as “I…[Read more]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 14 2012,17:38)Just to be clear, I believe that God was speaking through Jesus in 8:58.Of course you do, Marlin. But that still leaves you with two problems:1. Why would God tell the Pharisees that HE existed before Abraham? Didn't they already know this? 2. If it was GOD speaking through JESUS, then there are TWO…[Read more]

It surely makes you and Jesus two different beings. So why wouldn't the same apply when God (one Being) was in Jesus (a different being)?

Hi Marlin,As I expected, the factual information I posted for you fell on deaf ears. Do you think I made that stuff up? Check the scriptures. Check the lexicons. Anyway, I hope Nick reads your post, because it is him, not me, who believes the spirit was speaking through Jesus in 8:58.I hope Nick pays particular attention to point #2.

Nick,You would change the scriptures to fit your own doctrine? You would have God calling Himself “Father”?

Nick,Please explain your last post to me, and tell me how it addresses the point I made in my previous post.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,15:40)Hi MB, So you say. But check Jn5,12,14 etc and you will see God gave him the words to say.Dig deeperSo 17:5 was a case of God speaking through Jesus and asking HIMSELF for the glory He used to have alongside HIMSELF? Is that your stance, Nick?

Nick,Is the spirit of Christ the son of God? YES or NO?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2012,23:12)Hi T8,Did Yahshua speak the words given him by God?Nick,Hebrews 1:1-2 makes is clear that God spoke through many prophets, one of whom was Jesus. We're not arguing that He did.But you can bet that if the first word of the sentence was “Father”, then it was Jesus speaking to his Father, and not the Father…[Read more]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 13 2012,23:13)58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.  EXODUS 3:14 ………….Tell the children of Israel that I AM has sent me to you.Marlin,Were you aware that every time Jehovah claimed to BE Jehovah in the OT, the Hebrew words were “aniy yhwh”, meaing “I am I AM”.  If 8:58 w…[Read more]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2012,02:25)But please open your eyes; they are making lots of money,selling the magazines, and books after books,and booklets after booklets,and videos.Hmmmm………….. I've got a lot of JW literature in my house, yet I've never been asked to pay a dime for any of it.

Ed,When are you going to get around to explaining how Trinis and Non-Trinis are both right?

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2012,00:04)It is like the phrase “LORD of Lords” (see Rev.19:16),there is only one owner, which is what Lord means.And when Jesus is called our “ONE Lord”, then what, Ed? Does that mean the God of Jesus is no longer a “Lord” because Jesus must LITERALLY be the ONLY Lord in existence? Or is it okay to believe Paul when he…[Read more]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 13 2012,22:41)MikeB,  Here is what Paul said about your intellectual understanding of scripture.II COR 5:19 † To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself……………So ONE was IN the OTHER, Marlin? Wouldn't that be speaking of TWO then? Marlin, who exactly is Jesus the “Christ” OF?