Let me try this another way Frank (Nick, you're invited to DIRECTLY address these points too):Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 18 2012,16:23)“In the beginning God had a Plan and the Plan was fixed as God's Decree and the Plan was fully expressive ofGod's mind, and the Plan became embodied in the Man Messiah Jesus.”Non-preexisters always want to add the…[Read more]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 18 2012,19:53)Mike,Once again, YOU HAVE BEEN OWNED! Yes Frank.I realize you call not addressing my points “owning me”.  And I further realize that you have once again not addressed my points, thereby “owning me” yet again.Instead of “owning me”, why not try to address the points I made?(Btw, what are your latest…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2012,19:38)Hi MB, Was Jesus always called the Word even before he was called Jesus?I suspect so, Nick. I believe he is the one who often came to Isaiah, Jeremiah, and the other prophets. When the Hebrew says, “The Word of YHWH came to me saying…………..” , I believe it is many times referring to the pre-existent…[Read more]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 18 2012,19:27)“First, in Hebrew and Greek alike, there is no formal distinction between “name” and “title” as there is in English. The word used to express both concepts is the same in each language.Okay Frank.  Let's not make this a debate about whether it should be “name” or “title”.  Instead, why not address the a…[Read more]

jammin,I agree with Gill that men weren't wont (accustomed) to fearing death from seeing an angel.  But it is stated very clearly in verse 21 that Manoah “realized that it was the angel of the LORD.”  To me that means Manoah thought he might die just from seeing a supernatural representative of Jehovah. They must be pretty awe-inspiring, j…[Read more]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 18 2012,18:36)Mike,BTW, you did not pay very close attention as I had suggested that you do! Do you not remember conveying to me quite some time ago that it did not make sense in that Father Yahweh's word was WITH Him? That makes you a total ignoramus!Okay Frank,1.  Jesus is said to have the NAME “the Word of God” in…[Read more]

For Nick:2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom.Compare that teaching to the one in Phil 3:20-21, and you have your answer to the question of this thread.

Nick,Do you believe the Trinitarians are right about Jesus being the very God he is the Son of? YES or NO?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 18 2012,18:42)Our role is to be united as brothers and sisters in the Father and the Son by their Holy Spirit.Actually, our goal is to be accepted as brothers and sisters to Jesus, and sons and daughters to God.See the difference?  Brothers and joint heirs to one, sons to the other.

Kathi,There are many points in my last post that I want you to directly address. I'm in no rush, so whenever you get the time. As to your point, Peter was/is also a head of the church, since Jesus appointed him as the one to “feed my sheep”. So Peter is a head, Jesus is a head OVER Peter, and God is a head OVER Jesus. Jesus isn't in equality…[Read more]

jammin, I'm adding this info from NETNotes for you, Nick and Ed:Judges 13:22 NET © Manoah said to his wife, “We will certainly die, because we have seen a supernatural being!”Their footnote says:Or “seen God.” Some take the Hebrew term אֱלֹהִים (’elohim) as the divine name (“God”) here, but this seems unlikely since v. 21 informs us that Manoah re…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,19:01)Quote (jammin @ June 18 2012,11:55)that ANGEL OF THE LORD IS GOD HIMSELF.(?)I'll see Ed's question mark, and raise a jammin, Manoah and his wife saw an angel of God, which are sometimes called gods in scripture.  Just like in John 1:1, the English translators have the choice whether to render that scripture as “…[Read more]

I'm pretty sure that's not what Nick said, Ed.

Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2012,16:25)Hi Pierre,We are reborn by God's HolySpirit birthing us on the inside.Are we reborn by God's Holy Spirit? Or by God's God?

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 18 2012,16:23)“In the beginning God had a Plan and the Plan was fixed as God's Decree and the Plan was fully expressive ofGod's mind, and the Plan became embodied in the Man Messiah Jesus.”Non-preexisters always want to add the word “IN” to 1:14.  But the Word BECAME flesh, Frank.  It did not come to be IN someone who a…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2012,17:33)Hi Mike,If you want to explore 'your beliefs' more in a discussion with me, I would be willing to do so.Thanks for the offer, Ed, but I have no intention of trying to convince the little kid that the sky is blue when he is adamant that it is green.The little kid can just go on believing whatever he'd like to…[Read more]

 Good post.I just don't understand why people would fault us, or try to belittle us for speaking the very truth of the scriptures, Pierre.  It baffles me.(Btw, good trap in our game. I almost fell for it! )

Nick? Do we have an agreement?

Spin it however you want to, Ed. The bottom line is that you're saying God became the Son of God.

So then you and I really have no leg to stand on against the Trinitarians, do we? Because the “spirit” is telling them that Jesus is the very God he is the Son of, despite the fact this doctrine isn't taught in any scripture. But if scriptures don't have to make any sense, the Trinitarians could very well be right, couldn't they?Do you believe…[Read more]