Being as Jesus is the word given the characteristics of a person it follows that anything Jesus did the word did. The question is whether Jesus did anything the word did before the word was given the characteristics of a person. It is possible Scripture does credit him with doing such things.
Kerwin,

Everything you say amounts to: “The Word was…[Read more]

If you also contend that begotten is just another word for created, then Jesus as the only begotten of the Father means that he is the only created of the God. Obviously that is not the case, so this is a weakness of your view.
I’d say the one that cannot address the other one’s points is the one with the “weak view”. I’m still waiting for the…[Read more]

Hi Mike,

There is ONLY ONE exception, and that is “God”……..
Ed and t8,

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION, AND PROVE ME WRONG HERE.

Every king of Judah came into existence through David. Without David, not one single king of Judah came into existence.

Is that a true statement? YES.

But consider that Jehovah was the ULTIMATE King of Judah – even as…[Read more]

Providing my source is correct he called the logos a sacrificial demigod. It also claims he called it Superior to angels, a second divinity, first-begotten Son of God and a whole lot more. Many insist he was stated he was not speaking of a person and yet other still believe he was.
So a sacrificial demigod? Superior to the angels that were…[Read more]

As long as as you are making God’s word into his I see no distance gained.
My word is not someone else, my word is not my son, my word is ME.
Ed, there never will be any distance gained until you come to understand that Jesus isn’t called “the Word” because he is, or was, a literal word spoken by God. He is called “the Word of God” because he i…[Read more]

God created THE WORD(CHRIST){this is the beginning} then God created all things through him (THE WORD) and all scriptures are true
Agreed.

(2)is it true that God Himself came into existence THROUGH the Word of God?

(3)And is it true that the Word came into existence THROUGH itself?
Hi Mike,

2) No

3) also No
Then I have made my point that the one who created all things, and the one through whom all things were created, are EXCEPTIONS to the “all things” that were created…[Read more]

Let’s see. We have from the above translations:
•created
•made
•came into being
•received
•happened

One translation from the Bible Hub list says, ‘came into existence’ as you say it means.
I just spent an hour making a beautiful response for you. I hit “Submit”, and the whole thing disappeared. I tried to arrow back to the previous page,…[Read more]

I did explain it. He was begotten not created.
And you said that by being “begotten”, the Word “came into existence by God”, right?

And John 1:3 says that apart from the Word, NOTHING “came into existence”, right?

So by repeating the same thing – “begotten, not created!” – you are not addressing the fact that the Word DID “come into existence”,…[Read more]

I feel you are trying to blur the meaning of created and begotten. They are obviously two different words and are applied in different situations.
They are two of MANY different words that convey the same exact thing, ie: “something or someone was brought forth into existence”.

You haven’t addressed the point of my last post, t8. YOU said that…[Read more]

Mike,

The Preexistant law teaching is actually a variation of the same argument I have made previously. It is a known teaching from the first teaching unlike most people use. It also fits the facts. Both Wikipedia and the Jewish Libraries spoke about it. Philo, like, John called it logos. Jeremiah spoke of a time when it would be written on…[Read more]

Mike,

I corrected this post but I am unsure if you saw the corrected and more easily understood version.

Yeah, I saw the corrected version, but am still not interested in discussing any “preexistent Law of God”. I believe it to be just another “side show” of yours, because you won’t accept the obvious fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1. I…[Read more]

I believe he came into existence by God, but I am asking you for an explanation as to how you can keep these two scriptures from contradicting your view……
John 1:3 NRSV ©
All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being.

The Greek text says all things “came into existence” through him, and apart from him…[Read more]

Obviously God is not included because he was not made so that goes without saying……..
t8, did the Word come into existence when he was begotten by God?

Kerwin, HUH? 🙂

And what I’m looking for is your understanding of the “characteristics” of God’s preexistent Law – whatever that is.

Actually, never mind, Kerwin. I already knew from the first time you mentioned “God’s preexistent Law” that you were once again off in la-la land, trying to confuse the issue with things you cannot even describe…[Read more]

You believe:
•The Word that was with God had a beginning.
•Jesus is the Word that was with God in the beginning.
•Jesus as the Word is a created being. God made him.
•God created all things through and for Jesus who is the Word of God.
•As the Word, he existed in the same form as God and at his right-hand side.
•He then he partook of flesh and m…[Read more]

Hi Kerwin,

Please explain to me the “characteristic of the preexistent Law”. What are they?

Kerwin, I could barely understand most of the stuff you posted. I gathered that you think the rider of the white horse in Rev 19 is “God’s pre-existent Law”. Yet you seem to ignore that the description of the Word of God who rides the white horse is the very same description Jesus gave of himself in Rev 1, 2, and 3. So the rider of the white…[Read more]

Hi Mike,

You say that because you believe it is Jesus the writer is speaking of, therefore he is excluded contextually from everything.
But you are also excluding God in the same instance that you are excluding Jesus, do you have a precedence that excludes
someone else besides the one being spoken of? …because that is what you will need – for…[Read more]

Finally if there was no difference between ‘created’ and ‘born’ then Jesus as the only begotten means he is the only one created. But I am pretty sure I was created and many others too.
1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

According to 1 Jo…[Read more]