Hi Kathi,Like I said, this thread was not intended for those of us who know Jesus is not “God Most High”.And it's not so much ME that is going to any “extent”.  It is the majority of trinitarian sponsored translators that go to the “extent” of wording it in such a way that it could be misunderstood that Jesus IS “God Most High”.  Look at 1…[Read more]

Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 19 2010,19:56)I am praying for us both, that God will be with us and guide us both in a special way.

To Shimmer and Gene,Philippians 3 NIV20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. First, this scripture PROVES that Jesus is not a human…[Read more]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 19 2010,21:21)This was a revelation for me apart from a direct scripture. During meditation or sometimes during a ball game I get powerful thoughts that prompt searching to see if scripture establishes it or refutes it.Well Tim, we are to test the spirits of revelation we receive.  We only have scripture to test them…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 20 2010,00:40)Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 19 2010,23:37)Shimmer,When did JustAskin say he followed what the JW's say.You even insist that I am following what they say as opposed to what Ssripture says.Shimmer, in my house, i have a Bible, and Bibles…i do have JW literature, but I also have Trinitarian literature, Mormon…[Read more]

Shimmer,These MEN you are quoting are using circular arguments.  They are saying that since we KNOW Jesus is still a flesh and blood man, then the “flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom” scripture MUST be saying something else.But WHY are they “KNOWING” that Jesus is still flesh?  What scripture are they finding that in?It seems odd to me that if man p…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 19 2010,14:00)Since yesterday. I prayed that I be led into all truth and I was and am being led……..so if we are both believing different thing's and I feel strangely moved to defend something and I don't know why……….if I then find agreement with the Early Church Fathers, then that says something to me, and I would…[Read more]

I have no problem with that at all.  Just as I have no problem with Thomas calling him “my god”.  Because neither Paul nor Thomas considered him “God Most High”. I ONLY have a problem with anyone who would dare to think that Paul somehow thought Jesus was God Almighty from this one scripture when he clearly did NOT think that at all if you read t…[Read more]

Hi Kerwin,Does scripture say the “the fool states in his heart” that Jesus became a “life giving spirit”?  Does it say “the fool states in their heart” that just as there are earthly bodies for those of the earth, there are spiritual heavenly bodies for those of heaven?I see your point Kerwin.  But I think Irene, Pierre and I are taking the W…[Read more]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,02:21)Mike : Earlier I wrote a long answer to your post but when I hit post my computer locked up and I lost it. I'll try again.I've had that happen to me before.  In fact, earlier today Windows just decided it would shut down my computer to update files!  Thankfully, I had only almost completed a 10 minute r…[Read more]

Quote (francis @ Dec. 19 2010,04:22)In this economic Trinity there is a type of voluntary submission of one person to   another, as the incarnate Son does the Father’s will and the Spirit speaks, not on His own account, but on behalf of the   Son. The economic Trinity does not reflect ontological differences between the persons but rather is an…[Read more]

Quote (francis @ Dec. 19 2010,04:21) CONCLUSION…  And so… because you've raised no rebuttals to my specific arguments contained in my last  post to you on this particular issue… nor have you supplied any new information to support your contention…  it is  reasonable to say that my response to you in my previous post still stands bec…[Read more]

That was the joke Gene. That barley and I could agree on a pre-existent thread. mike

Hi Kathi,When I saw you responded, I was happy because I hadn't heard from you in a while. And I'm still happy to hear from you. And I KNOW that Jesus is “a god”, for Jehovah says so. But he is NOT YHVH Almighty, God of gods, is he?And “God from God” says that very loud and clear, Kathi. YHVH God is not FROM anyone or anything. All things are…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 19 2010,11:57)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2010,11:55)Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 19 2010,08:54)Well. Keep reading your 'other literature'. To me, I will believe what was believed by the church in the year 130AD.Do what you want, Shimmer.  I will believe the scriptures.  And the scriptures say Jesus is a spirit and that flesh CANNOT i…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 19 2010,10:48)Or do you prefer, as Mike does, the teachings of the JWs ?  That's funny Shimmer.  Keith and Jack used to pull that crap on me all the time.  Just because I understood the scripture one way, they would go out of their way to say that's also how the JW's understand it.  Then the debate became about the JW's ins…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 19 2010,08:54)Well. Keep reading your 'other literature'. To me, I will believe what was believed by the church in the year 130AD.Do what you want, Shimmer. I will believe the scriptures. And the scriptures say Jesus is a spirit and that flesh CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God.mike

Hi barley,Thanks for your support!  Imagine, you and I agreeing in a thread entitled “Pre-existence”!       peace and love,mike

Thank you barley and Kerwin!  And to Tim and Keith:John 20 NIV21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” This has the sa…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 18 2010,12:41)To all,Jesus was risen in the flesh. He remains in the flesh and He will return in the flesh.But scripture says he is now a spirit, Shimmer.    Scripture says flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.  Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 18 2010,12:41)“'If therefore they tell you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' don't go ou…[Read more]