Gene: Mike, where do you see it written that Jesus is the wisdom of God at?

1 Corinthians 1:22-24

Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Gene: And…[Read more]

gadam: “The point of the phrase is that this future ruler, who may indeed be the Messiah, will have come forth from Bethlehem because his royal origins are “of old, from days of yore,” i.e., from the old and venerable House of David, and David was born in Bethlehem.”

Why would the people you quoted add the word “royal” to the scripture?  God sp…[Read more]

Carmel:  YOU:  No, we are not born as “spiritual sons of God”.

John 1:12-13

But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man,

but born of God.
ME: Mike God is a SPIRIT BEING!

If we are born of A SPIRIT  BEING[Read more]

LU: The Father through the Son, i.e. both.

It took both to complete the creation therefore, one cannot be considered the creator and the other not the creator.

Jesus says it was the Father.  Jesus’ apostles say it was the Father.  And while the KJV uses the word “creator” 5 times…

… there is no instance of “creators”…

You are f…[Read more]

Gene:  Mike…..Greek word (pro) 

a primary preposition “fore”, that is, in front of, prior (figuratively) SUPERIOR  to. In compounds it retains the same significance:- “above” , ago, “before”, or ever.

The overall meaning in the text is Jesus Christ is SUPERIOR, OR “MORE IMPORTANT” , to those people, then Abraham was or is. It was not in referenc…[Read more]

Mike: First of all, our hope is to become spiritual children of God.

Carmel: NOT QUITE RIGHT:
WE ARE ALREADY SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD! IN FACT, THAT PASSAGE  CLEARLY SAYS

Romans 8:17 And if sons, heirs also;
 HEIRS INDEED OF GOD!

No, we are not born as “spiritual sons of God”.

John 1:12-13

But to all who did receive Him, to those who b…[Read more]

LU: Here is your “peer-review:”

According to the NET Bible notes:

sn You founded the earth…your years will never run out. In its original setting Ps 102:25-27 refers to the work of God in creation, but here in Hebrews 1:10-12 the writer employs it in reference to Christ, the Lord, making a strong argument for the essential deity of the Son.[Read more]

gadam 123: The writer of Fourth Gospel had put words into Jesus mouth to fulfill his Christology stating that Jesus was preexisting before his birth as human being. He was the ‘word’ that was with God in the beginning and was somehow involved in God’s creation. Such concepts are not available in Hebrew scriptures unless we force them and take…[Read more]

Gene:  Mike….Even if you were to render it as present tense ,  it still could be understood as Jesus exists presently,  (in importance ), before Abraham did or does,  right?

Gene, look at the actual Greek words again…

said unto them Jesus truly truly say I to you before Abraham came into existence I exist

The words “before Abraham CAME INTO…[Read more]

Mike: Technically, Heb 1:1-2 says that, through his Son, God created the world. We know it is referring to the Father, but the writer explicitly identifies the Son as someone other than the one he identifies as “God” – whom he also identifies as the ONE who created the world.

LU:  Technically, it is the one the writer of Hebrews calls “God”…[Read more]

LU:  Mike,

Scripture says that nothing was made apart from Him, obviously He was not “made.”

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

Scripture also says that God created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.  Well, God is one of the thing…[Read more]

Mike: That’s why Jesus is a joint heir along with us of God’s graces.

Carmel:  I’M AFRAID YOU ARE EITHER CONFUSED OR SIMPLY IGNORANT OF THE TRUTH! IMO…
Mike, WE AS CHRISTIANS… RECEIVE GOD’S GRACES BY JESUS!
WHICH IS A HELL OF A DIFFERENCE  FROM WHAT YOU ARE PREACHING, THAT JESUS IS A JOINT HEIR ALONG WITH US OF GOD’S GRACES!

Romans 8:14-17[Read more]

Mike: Let’s lay this out clearly…

1. The author of Ps 102 prayed specifically, knowingly, and solely to YHVH the Son (the one who actually did create the heavens and the earth).

2. The author of Heb 1 somehow knew that this particular prayer to YHVH in Ps 102 was not to YHVH the Father, nor to YHVH the Binity (Father and Son together) – but to…[Read more]

Gene: Mike…..there is not a single scripture that “says” Jesus “existed before Abraham ” not one. 

What about this one?

John 8:58 New Living Translation

Jesus answered, “The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!”

The Greek words…

said unto them Jesus truly truly say I to you before Abraham came into existence I exist<…[Read more]

LU: Heb 1 says that it was through the Son that the Father created the world. 

Technically, Heb 1:1-2 says that, through his Son, God created the world. We know it is referring to the Father, but the writer explicitly identifies the Son as someone other than the one he identifies as “God” – whom he also identifies as the ONE who created the…[Read more]

Gene:  Also we do have scripture that calls him a “second” Adam.  So if he were a second “Adam” as scripture says , then the assumption would be he indeed had come into his “only existence” as a “type” of Adam…

Read the next verse, Gene…

1 Corinthians 15:47

The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven.

T…[Read more]

@Admin

This posts on this thread are out of sync with the pages.  Please fix.  Thank you.

Kathi, I painstakingly addressed your last post with scriptural truths.  You have responded with a story that has no basis in scriptures.  Eternal nature?  But Jesus says he was the beginning of the creation by God, and that he was created as the first of God’s works… and then rejoiced as he watched God create the earth. God said through Mi…[Read more]

Gene:  Mike. Jesus was indeed the beginning of a new creation in mankind…

Mike the biggest problem here is people “force our text”, to say things that are not “specifically”  written , that is where false teachings come from, we shouldn’t  read things into our texts that are no specifically written in them.

Gene, is it specifically wri…[Read more]

Jodi: 1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of THE WORD of life;

Jodi, which “word” did they touch with their own hands?  Could it be the “word” who rides a white horse in Revelation?