Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,14:30)yet when I ask about 'the Princes of him has fallen' everyone goes quiet…What is it you want us to say? If Michael is one of the princes, and HE is not greater than or equal to Jesus, then why would you think Satan, as one of the princes, is? Satan must have at one time been in good graces with God for him…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,14:08)Irene and Mike,This whole Firstborn then raises another question that Mike has brought up…If all things were created through Jesus then WHAT WAS SATAN's BEEF ABOUT WANTING TO BE WORSHIPPED – to be like God?Quote Irene and Mike,This whole Firstborn then raises another question that Mike has brought up…If all…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,13:43)Posting a nonsense answer does not qualify as an answer especially from you who insists on Direct answers because you already know what you WANT The other person to say.Ahhhhh!  So you DID get my point?  Think about that the next time you're ready to make fun of the way I do things around here, okay?  When I sp…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,07:46)So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)I don't believe anyone really “fears” you or what you say. Roll our eyes? Sure.…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,06:46)And, if One Son has fallen, is not another RAISED UP in his place, BEGOTTEN – in his place!!So then Jesus was begotten the minute Satan fell? Istari, if you could only believe the scriptures that say Satan and all other angels were created through God's firstborn Son, then you wouldn't be so lost on this…[Read more]

Yeah Irene.I don't know why Gene can't see that even if he didn't pre-exist, he STILL was never “exactly like us” anyway. And you are right about Paladin, which is why I didn't include his name in my post to Marty. He has a different personal reason for Jesus not to pre-exist: He thinks for some reason that the pre-existence of Jesus supports…[Read more]

Oh. The post was addressed to me…………….so I just assumed. Sorry. mike

Quote (kerwin @ April 23 2011,02:01)To all,Looking at John 3:10-13 it seems clear Jesus is speaking of the Word, spoken of in John 1:1-18, that was with the Elohim and was elohima in the beginning as the Word came down and united with the human Jesus.   The same elohim that came down is still in heaven and will return to heaven in the flesh of…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 23 2011,08:55)Does Hebrews not tell us, and Romans, that it was AFTER HE WAS RAISED UP (Which is the meaning of BEGOTTEN).So far, the skeptics fir this reading cannot reconcile the order and flow of the verses but simply to to see WORDS instead of SENTENCES, let alone MEANING.First of all, “begotten” doesn't mean “raised up”,…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,12:58)Only Spirits exist in the Spirit realm.And does Jesus exist there?mike

Quote (Baker @ April 24 2011,10:47)The reason why I believe that not all will be Spirit Beings is,Hi Irene,When have I ever said “all will become spirit beings”? mike

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,12:19)And Mike, did you intend to answer my other questions in that same post two above this one?I'm fascinated to hear what you have to say regarding them.Okay,I'll answer one more of your questions………….but that's it until you DIRECTLY answer mine about taking the fact that we don't know who the second is as…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 24 2011,12:41)Mike!  I like to answer  Istari's question, don't be upset.  The Angels were created next, through Jesus.  They too are called the Son's of God.  There are ranks as far as the Angels  are concerned.  The cherubs or Archangels are higher then the regular Angels, But all are called the Son's of God, Michael, Gabrie…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,12:17)Mike,The point of saying 'Firstborn' is to emphasise that firstborn from the other 'Borns' else just say 'One and Only'.  But Jesus is NOT the “one and only” son God has, so we couldn't really say that.  He is the first son that God ever “brought forth” out of many, therefore the “firstborn of all creation”, a…[Read more]

Hi Irene,I think it stems from the fact that in their minds, the only way it works is if Jesus was, as Gene often puts it, “exactly like us”.  And since they “KNOW” this with their whole hearts, souls and minds, they then also “KNOW” that any scripture that seems to contradict what they've already made up their minds to believe must be because of…[Read more]

Istari,I'm not really following you here.  Are you saying that because we don't know who the next to be created after Jesus was, Jesus cannot be the first?  

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 24 2011,09:30)Mike you still have not told us what this “SERPENT” of Yours looks like, when have you or anyone else here seen him?.Gene, I have answered this point.  I don't know what he looks like because he can even masquerade as an angle of light if he wants.But I also don't know what God looks like, and so us…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 24 2011,09:03)One set of believes separates Jesus from our exact identity ,while the other accepts Jesus as an identical human beingSee what I was saying in that long post, Marty?  One cannot possibly hope to let the scriptures TEACH THEM when they have already made their mind up about certain things before hand.mike

Quote (942767 @ April 24 2011,07:47)Hi Mike:Relative to Jesus being the Only Begotten Son, and that he could not have been that as an angel, the following scripture has come to mind:Quote Hebrews 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ April 24 2011,07:09)No, Mike, it is not up to me to show that he couldn't possibly pre-exist as someone else before he became a man, but if you are going to teach this doctrine of pre-existence, the burden is upon you to show that this is true.Hi Marty,I've carried my burden.  Here, let me show you:I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.  WHAT I…[Read more]