Quote (Baker @ April 25 2011,08:29)And I can see with so much said in one post, that He missed your answer.Hi Irene,Thanks for coming to my defense.  I assure you it isn't necessary, but appreciated anyway.  And while I agree 100% with your above comment, (because it is like finding a needle in a haystack when someone places the answer to your q…[Read more]

Okay…………..After wading through all the personal insults that result from one getting his butt kicked scripturally, I did find a couple of tidbits to address:I said:Quote Istari, I understand what you claim:  That Adam was God's “firstborn” (as in “most loved or whatever”) of the flesh sons of God and that Jesus replaced him thereby…[Read more]

Hi Irene,The thread is locked, so it didn't copy with all the colors and links t8 originally used. But it's there in part 2 for you. Perhaps t8 could later replace it with the original, complete with colors and links.peace,mike

A post from t8 in Preexistence Part ICopied to Part 2 at Irene's request.John 6:38-40   For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,20:48)Mike,Hosea said 'malak' and you have said that 'malak' means messenger all the time. What Hosea confirms is that the one wrestling with Jacob was Jehovah, God of hosts. Manoah saw the Son also but I don't think that He is specifically identified as Jehovah as in Hosea and Gen. 18.Kathi,When you find one…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,20:29)Mike,I can find many who teach the same thing so how is it that it is my imagination and wishes?And when you find a SCRIPTURE that actually teaches it, then you have a rock foundation to build on.Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,20:29)I view the scriptures through the foundation of the churchFind a rock…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,20:17)The Genesis 32 account…see, no mention of an angel:Hosea confirms it WAS an angel, and Manoah, knowing he had seen an angel, said he had seen “God”.

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2011,01:50)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,01:24)Quote (kerwin @ April 23 2011,02:01)To all,Looking at John 3:10-13 it seems clear Jesus is speaking of the Word, spoken of in John 1:1-18, that was with the Elohim and was elohima in the beginning as the Word came down and united with the human Jesus.   The same elohim…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 24 2011,21:53)It is not the new creation spoken of in Col 1:15 but the old creation which is made obvious in the immediate verse which follows.The Firstborn of all creation created all things as the Firstborn, the image of the invisible God, God's only begotten Son born before the ages…the begotten God.  God, the…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ April 24 2011,20:23)Hi Pierre:The new creation, yes.Marty,Hebrews 1:2 says that the ages, (as in more than one age) were created through Jesus.You speak of ONE age, and scripture speaks of (presumably) all ages………….but at the very least, more than one.mike

Quote (942767 @ April 25 2011,17:28)You have a translation that Jesus is a begotten God, but there is no God but YHWH, and Jesus is God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ.  That is what my Father has revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter, and that is who Jesus is.Hi Marty,We didn't make up the manuscriptS that have “begotten god” in…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,12:53)That which was born of God is not of 'new matter' but was eternal within the Father and then born of the Father at the appropriate time to act in the creation miracle of heaven and earth.So this “new matter” was not at one time also eternal within the Father?

Quote (terraricca @ April 24 2011,19:04)martyCol 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,Is creation start wen Jesus was put in Marie by the holy spirit ?

Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,12:41)Dennison,There is Jehovah, the unseen God the Father…and His image, Jehovah, the only begotten God from the Father, who was seen in the appearance of a man and taken for being an angel, but He is not a created angel.Kathi, I know the scriptures you use to claim this…………but where is the scripture…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 25 2011,00:33)4Yes, he wrestled with the angel and prevailed; He wept and sought His favor. He found Him at Bethel And there He spoke with us,5Even the LORD, the God of hosts, The LORD is His name.NASBThat doesn't say Jacob wrestled with the God of hosts, Kathi,In fact, it very clearly says he…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 24 2011,21:30)Mike, In Gen 18 and in the story of Jacob wrestling with God, this is not an incident of a vice regent.  Scripture clearly identifies the one as Jehovah as is made clear in Hosea 4.  You must use conjecture to say otherwise.KathiNo Kathi,For it to NOT be a vice regent OF God is to say that men have not only s…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2011,02:15)Lets assume you are correct at there is an inferred “All” in that passage.It does not state enter. It states “inherit” which means “come into possession of”.Yes, let's DO assume that, since it says nothing to specify any particular kind of flesh. And do you believe that Jesus has “come into possession of” the…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 25 2011,14:45)Irene,'Sit' .. Please please Please… Irene, please…Spirits don't have bodies to SIT, Stand, look, hear, touch – whatever..But they come into, and leave from, the presence of God. How can they “come” and “go” if they don't have something distinguishing where they ARE from where they ARE NOT?mike

Quote (Paladin @ April 25 2011,09:14)(Mike) Hi Marty, First of all, he was the “Son of Man” ever since Daniel prophesied about him.Very Good Mike. Now tell us why you deny that very same application to the incarnate Christ?Hi Paladin,Cyrus didn't pre-exist his flesh.  Cyrus did not begin “existing”, or “become incarnate”, until he was physically…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 25 2011,18:52)I was looking in the preexisting Tread, and seen the post t8 made with all those Scriptures. however it is in the first part of that tread. I tried to paste and copy it, but I am not so swift with something like that. I also can;t bring that tread up since it's closed. Do you know how to do that? I would…[Read more]