Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2011,20:14)Yes, translators are quite entitled to, and often do, add words when it makes the passage read more smoothly in English as long as it doesn't alter the clear meaning of the text. Col 1:16 in the NWT does not fit this criteria….Says who? You and the others out there who believe that the Son OF God can BE the…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2011,20:02)Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2011,12:50)So if Jesus is not the God they prayed TO, then Jesus must be included in the “EVERYTHING” in heaven and earth that was made BY the God they prayed TO.This assertion has an unstated premise – namely that God is unipersonal. This premise has not been substantiated.6900…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2011,19:53)You haven't addressed the point. Let's try another approach. Was Jesus involved in creation? In what capacity?It is unclear from scripture. We know that God created everything alone. We also know that God chose to do this THROUGH His Son. What that word “through” really means is anyone's guess.

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2011,19:36)The Watchtower understand the logical implication of Col 1:16 that's why they bracket the word “other” between “all” and “things” in their NWT paraphrase. This is in spite of the fact that the two Greek words for “other” (heteros and allos) are not found in any manuscripts, it flies in the face of the context of…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2011,19:22)Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2011,11:17)Hi Paul,It's been a while, huh?    I hope all is well with you.  No scripture says that Jesus “brought all things into existence”.  Scripture teaches that all things are created THROUGH Jesus by his God.Jesus is not the Creator, but a part of the creation himself.  He was…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2011,22:47)Are you stating that Jehovah Elohim is God of daemons?Hi Kerwin,Of course.  Why wouldn't He be?  After all, He is the God of everything everywhere, as you implied.  He is not only the God of Michael the archangel and the “good” angels, but also of Satan and his demons.Quote (kerwin @ May 18 2011,22:47)I am pr…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 19 2011,09:34)Just as your words and you are one and the same thing So is GOD and HIS words.  God and His word is one and the same thing. Hi Gene,Then John 1:14 says that God Himself became flesh and had the glory of an only begotten from the Father, right?  Who is this “Father” to whom God Himself is an “only b…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ May 19 2011,17:59)Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:  Then He made in the likeness of men…..Just think if He was a man at that time, then it was not necessary to be made into the likeness of men.Peace Irene Hi Irene,I'd like to hear Marty's a…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ May 19 2011,02:22)Angels are MALEZechariah 5:9Then I lifted up my eyes and looked, and there two women were coming out with the wind in their wings; and they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens.

Quote (Istari @ May 19 2011,02:22)Like Mikeboll64, you are probably tainted by pictures of Angels with Wings and other artistic visualisations…Yes, artistic visualizations insisted upon by the greatest Artist of all. Don't forget it was God who designed the ark.

Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,02:17)Insight and visions must be in line with scripture.Truer words have never been spoken, Shimmer. If Jesus was existing in the form of God, then God has a form. This is an example of aligning your understanding with the words of scripture.peace,mike

Hi Paul,It's been a while, huh?    I hope all is well with you.  No scripture says that Jesus “brought all things into existence”.  Scripture teaches that all things are created THROUGH Jesus by his God.Jesus is not the Creator, but a part of the creation himself.  He was the first thing his God ever created.

Hi Kathi,I'm jealous of the one on Cayman also.  Not so much the UK, for it seems to be cloudy all the time there.  (I didn't purposely move to the middle of a desert for no reason.    )Quote (Lightenup @ May 18 2011,22:29)Regarding John 1, obviously the Son existed before creation, I think we both agree with that.I agree the Son existed bef…[Read more]

Hi Kerwin,I disagree.  I think that since they use the same exact word twice in the phrase “God of gods”, they are not implying that Jehovah is the God of anything less than a god.  “King of kings” doesn't imply that the lessor kings are any less a king than the King OF them, right?  Same with “Lord of lords”.  So why would “God of gods” be dif…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ May 17 2011,12:17)Mike!  I just came across a Scripture in Romans that is not posted yet.. Rom 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.  this is a good scripture like Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3;14 that rules out that Jesus always ex…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ May 18 2011,16:48)Mike, I just have to add, I have seen Istari speak of things that many here have no knowledge of. Enoch when he comes, if they are right, will also speak of things that nobody knows nothing about.Who will he be speaking to?Hi Shimmer,I can't tell you who he will speak to, but I can tell you who won't be listening…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 18 2011,16:05)Hi Mike,I am being challenged by our conversation, I hope you are too.  It is very nice to not have any interruptions from others, we should have done this months ago I agree.  My only complaint is that we've both ballooned our simple Q and A discussion into monster posts!    Let's fix that right now, okay?  Yo…[Read more]

Hi Gene,I read your posts.  They come from a good place in your heart, so I say this with love and kindness:  If you really want to have a discussion about the pre-existence of Jesus with me, then it takes more than you posting your beliefs.We will have to tear into those beliefs, line by line, and find out if the things you're basing your b…[Read more]

Quote (Paladin @ May 17 2011,05:53)Ho logos was with ton theon, and was theos. Theon and theos are one and the same. Ton Theon is the direct object of “with.” Theos is the predicate nominative of the subject  “ho logos.” The importance of this is found in the fact that no verse says “ho logos is theos;” the form of the verb is critical here Mike,…[Read more]

Quote (Paladin @ May 17 2011,04:02)Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2011,11:59)Quote (Paladin @ May 16 2011,05:56)That is my use of “or” where Peter said “as.” I was showing you (well, trying to show you at least) that Peter is saying that supreme kings commission all lessor men through authority bestowed by his supreme authority. That are all…[Read more]