Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 06 2011,02:49)The council of Nicea dealt primarily with the issue of the deity of Christ. Over a century earlier the use of the term “Trinity” (“trinitas” in Latin) could be found in the writings of Origen (185-254) and Tertullian (160-220), and a general notion of a “divine three”, in some sense, was expressed in the second…[Read more]

Thanks David,That is enough said already so that I don't have to use my time dealing with this.

Quote (Istari @ June 06 2011,08:56)So, How does Mikeboll account for Jesus NOT BEING A SPIRIT – and – is in a Flesh and Bone Body – on Earth… YET – IS A SPIRIT – in Heaven?At what point did Jesus change from being a Flesh and Bone material bodied person – into a Spirit being?Mike, Any response to that question?Yeah,We've discussed it at some…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ June 06 2011,08:48)So, if Jesus was RAISED INTO A GLORIOUS BODY then so will PAUL…if Jesus went up to Heaven – then so will Paul (of The Elect)Will they have BODIES IN HEAVEN – No –Istari,Do you know that Jesus was raised back to life in his flesh body for a specific reason?  Do you know what that reason was?Now, aside from…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 06 2011,16:23)Yes, Mike, if you use common sense!“Common sense” tells me to believe what's written, and not make up my own conclusion or words just because they speak what my ears are aching to hear.Now…………….back to our discussion.  You can argue the word “origin” if you like, but consider this:From our own point…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2011,15:25)Quote (Lightenup @ June 06 2011,16:06)Preach it Keith…preach it!Thanks Kathi!My love back to you and you too “Dennison”. And you to Peirre and Mike. And you to t8 and all on HN. Blessings and Love to you all even if we do disagree on some things. KeithDitto to all.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2011,09:28)Hi Kathi and PaulI had a debate with Mike for a while about Micah 5:2 and Ps 2:7 and showed him even the “Twot” disagrees with his Idea that that Micah 5:2 is proof Jesus had a beginning.I finally got tired of going in circles with him.That's not quite the way I remember it, Keith. I remember that I…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 05 2011,20:57)Kathi is right Mike, the same language that is used to describe YHWH's eternality is also applied to Yeshua in Micah 5:2. So although you included it on your little list of prooftexts that supposedly bear out the fact that Yeshua was created, it actually argues the opposite. I've seen others (possibly yourself…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,20:36)Ps 90:2 Before the mountains themselves were born,Or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land,Even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.I don't know why you can't see this verse talking about Him being from eternity and to eternity.Does it SAY “from…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,19:38)No, Mike:You said that he was asking to be returned to the glory he had with the Father before the world was.And your point is……………….? That IS what he asked for. But behold, he was exalted even higher than what he asked for. The same thing happened to Solomon, right?Now please DIRECTLY address the…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,19:12)one of them being AddeausWhat SCRIPTURE tells you that Addeaus was one of the 72?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,18:57)Obviously not. The beginning is relative. Do you think that YHVH did not always exist?This is why I didn't bring it up over a year ago. I had other fish to fry at the time (many of which are still on the pan). But the fact is that I don't know of anywhere in the whole of scripture where Jehovah is actually…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 05 2011,18:57)Acually it's a NZ colloquialism.It was also quite popular in 1950's America. “Betty is keen on Bill.” Translation: She likes Bill.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,18:55)Mike,Whether it was a first coming or second coming, He was and still is the God/Man.There is no such thing as a “God/Man” listed in scripture, Kathi.  5:4 lists someone who will rule in the strength OF his God.  And Jesus is no longer a “man” anyway.  He is now a life giving SPIRIT.So it seems that your “c…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,18:12)Hi Mike:The discussion about Abram and his name is a diversion which has nothing to do with Philippians 2. This has everything to do with your assertion that Jesus wasn't “Jesus” yet, so Phil 2 couldn't have been about him until he WAS “Jesus”.  And what I've pointed out to you is that we can speak of the…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,17:48)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,08:02)Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13)Hi Mike:Jesus existed in the heart of God to be manifest to humanity in his timing, and Jesus was asking God to glorifiy him with the glory that was foreseen that he would have with the Father in his exalted position as head of the…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,18:37)Mike,Wow, you were wrong, you should also confess that YHVH is said to be from the eon also.And what don't you get about the Messiah 'according to the flesh?'  Of course He depended on the Lord's strength.Kathi,When I first discussed Micah 5:2 with Keith over a year ago, the first thing I did was look up the…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,18:08)So Mike, you should be able to see that both YHVH and the Son are from the same time.But “arch” is used in Gen 1:1 also. Is the earth also “from the same time” as Jehovah and Jesus?Jesus' disciples were said to have been with him “from arche”. Are they also “from the same time” as Jehovah and Jesus?

Quote (Lightenup @ June 05 2011,18:20)Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 04 2011,21:43)Istari, do you anything to offer us besides this juvenile campaign of invective?In another thread, I put this challenge to you:Quote By my count you asked 10 questions here and I'm guessing the post took you about 10 minutes to write. At 10 minutes a question it's going to…[Read more]

Hi Kathi,You are right – I misread the placement of “arche”, thinking it referred to Jesus's beginning.  Instead, it says “his origin is from the beginning, from days of old”.  (NET, NAB, NIV, NRSV, NLT)But I'll tell you what, read two more verses down………He will assume his post and shepherd the people by the Lord’s strength, by the sov…[Read more]