Keith,you wrote:Quote Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. Pss 89:27This is spoken about David and accomplished because of Christ, as the Son of David.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,10:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,09:21)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:27)Here is one…Hippolytus: Dogmatical and Historical Fragmentshttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-18.htm#P3712_1172813These things then, brethren, are declared by the Scriptures. And the blessed John, in the testimony of…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:22)Here is one…Clement of Alexandria: Fragments Part 1http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iv.ix.html“There was; then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreate.” No…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:24)Here is one…Tertullian: Against Praxeashttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.ix.xii.html” because already there was attached to Him his Son, a second person, his own Word, and a third, the Spirit in the Word….one substance in three coherent persons. He was at once the Father, the Son, and the…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:27)Here is one…Hippolytus: Dogmatical and Historical Fragmentshttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-18.htm#P3712_1172813These things then, brethren, are declared by the Scriptures. And the blessed John, in the testimony of his Gospel, gives us an account of this economy (disposition) and acknowledges…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 20 2010,04:40)To all, “There is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10 “Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35 “Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39 “See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39 “Hear, O…[Read more]

Keith,No one can be a firstborn and be the first of their kind. A firstborn is not a first created. A firstborn comes from another of his kind that existed before him.

Here is one:Quote Theophilus to Autolycus Book IIhttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-42.htm#P1669_480398You will say, then, to me: “You said that God ought not to be contained in a place, and how do you now say that He walked in Paradise? “Hear what I say. The God and Father, indeed, of all cannot be contained, and is not found in a place, for…[Read more]

What did the ante-nicene church fathers say about the Son as the firstborn of/over all creation? Do they indicate that the Son was the first to come forth from God and then through Him all things came into being? Or did they indicate something else by calling him the firstborn of/over all creation (Col 1)?Put ante-nicene church fathers quotes on…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2010,23:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 19 2010,22:51)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,18:55)Hi Mike:If Jesus was begotten prior to his birth from the virgin Mary, please show me by the scriptures that it is so, and please tell me how he is begotten, from Himself or from whom?  How, Mike, how? I can't seem to get my mind…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:17)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:10)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:04)Hi Lu:”Unbegotten God?  Where do you come up with this.  Certainly, there is nothing in the scriptures that indicates this.Love in Christ,MartyMarty,If God always existed then He was not begotten by anyone…right?  Therefore He is the un…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:02)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,14:51)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,18:55)Hi Mike:If Jesus was begotten prior to his birth from the virgin Mary, please show me by the scriptures that it is so, and please tell me how he is begotten, from Himself or from whom?  How, Mike, how? I can't seem to get my mind to wrap…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:04)Hi Lu:”Unbegotten God?  Where do you come up with this.  Certainly, there is nothing in the scriptures that indicates this.Love in Christ,MartyMarty,If God always existed then He was not begotten by anyone…right? Therefore He is the unbegotten God.

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,18:55)Hi Mike:If Jesus was begotten prior to his birth from the virgin Mary, please show me by the scriptures that it is so, and please tell me how he is begotten, from Himself or from whom?  How, Mike, how? I can't seem to get my mind to wrap around that at all.Love in Christ,MartyHi Marty,What do you think…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 18 2010,13:11)Mikeboll said:Quote Could it be that Jesus was caused to exist at the crack of that very first day that they then both createdThe Father himself said that Jesus laid the FOUNDATIONS of the earth with His own hands (Heb. 1:8-10). The foundations of the earh were created before days were created. So Jesus…[Read more]

Hi Mike,I would like to point out that when Paul calls Isaac the only begotten of Abraham he is talking about the only begotten that the promise was given about.Heb 11:17-1817 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; 18 it was he to whom it was said, “IN…[Read more]

God begat God is not an untruth David. Obviously they are not the same person. There is only one unbegotten God and only one begotten God. In the beginning the word was with God (the unbegotten God) and the word was God (the begotten God)

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 17 2010,07:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,19:53)Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,18:03)Hi Keith (and maybe Kathi)YOU said:So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,01:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,00:57)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,00:42)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 16 2010,23:46)Interesting quote from Ignatius, the disciple of John who wrote the phrase “only begotten Son:'Quote For the Son of God, who was begotten before time began, and established all…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,01:16)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 17 2010,00:58)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,16:24)KathiIsn't that what you are doing, is supporting something that is not in scripture?WJSorry to butt in again, but what Kathi and I have done is show you the scripture, show you the definitons of the words, show you how…[Read more]