Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2010,10:47)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 18 2010,00:29)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 17 2010,16:10)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 16 2010,23:16)pssst…this is from Augustine.  He thinks the Father beget a Son equal to Himself and to think of the Son as lesser to the Father is a reproach to the Father.Quote 6. “Whoso ho…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 18 2010,10:22)Kathi:Quote Also, you exalt the NWT which is biased towards Jesus being a created angel.  You will never see them choose the definition for divine homage/worship for their 'created angel Jesus' since scripture says not to worship the angels.  So, as you have warned me not to put the church father's u…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 17 2010,23:02)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 17 2010,14:55)Only if God exalted it to be a requirement to get to Him through the second tree.  I hope we haven't started a new religion here disclaimer…Mike is making this stuff up, he took a break from the literal.  Consider this a commercial break   Okay Kathi,I guess I got my an…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 17 2010,16:10)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 16 2010,23:16)pssst…this is from Augustine.  He thinks the Father beget a Son equal to Himself and to think of the Son as lesser to the Father is a reproach to the Father.Quote 6. “Whoso honoreth not the Son, honoreth not the Father that sent Him.” This is a truth, and is plai…[Read more]

pssst…this is from Augustine. He thinks the Father beget a Son equal to Himself and to think of the Son as lesser to the Father is a reproach to the Father.Quote 6. “Whoso honoreth not the Son, honoreth not the Father that sent Him.” This is a truth, and is plain. Since, then, “all judgment hath He given to the Son,” as He said above, “that a…[Read more]

Only if God exalted it to be a requirement to get to Him through the second tree. I hope we haven't started a new religion here disclaimer…Mike is making this stuff up, he took a break from the literal. Consider this a commercial break

Mike,He didn't reveal the second tree when He told us to eat from the first tree only. He wasn't including the second tree with all the other trees since it hadn't been revealed yet. Besides, I would have already eaten what the second tree would have been by eating the seed within the fruit from the first tree. He didn't say to eat from the…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2010,20:05)Kathi:Quote I have shown you so much about so many that worshiped the Father and the Son in the NT and the early christians. There is not one scripture that shows anyone worshipping Jesus in the NT.  There is doing obeisance to Jesus, not paying homage to Jesus.  I led you to David, the blind man, and the A…[Read more]

Mike,If you think that worshiping the Father and the Son is not part of loving the Lord our God with all our heart and mind and strength then by all means, don't do it. I happen to think that it is. So we agree to disagree here.Quote Matt 15:3, 7-8 NIV3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? Thus…[Read more]

Hi Irene,This site is full of the early Christian's writings. It may interest you to see their viewpoints: http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

Shimmer,What are you talking about? You aren't my enemy. I don't have a clue where you got that…really! What did I say in anger?

Oh Mike…Mike, Mike! I have shown you so much about so many that worshiped the Father and the Son in the NT and the early christians. Polycarp was a disciple of John and his buddies were commenting at his martyrdom about worshiping Jesus. I suppose this is something that you need to ask the Father about for you to have the same peace about it…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 14 2010,19:09)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 14 2010,15:59)Dennison,I like your style…good job!I'll bet she especially likes the part where you would beat me with a baseball bat if you got the chance!  I love you too , Mike!

Thanks for your note Dennison (you idiot-just kidding).We all come to the realization that we have been idiots about something and most likely many things If we were perfect we wouldn't NEED Him!I wish I could have heard that conversation with RokkaMan, LOL!I'm glad that you know you are loved here…i love you!Iron sharpens iron and often what we…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 13 2010,23:46)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 14 2010,09:08)Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 14 2010,14:26)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 14 2010,07:50)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 14 2010,11:50)Psalms 89:27 is about David, who is a type of Christ and there are some similarities but nothing exact.I also don't think 89:27 is about Christ,…[Read more]

Hi Mike,Well congratulations, you have the support for your theory about not worshiping the Father AND the Son from those (maybe 10 or so) who don't believe the Son is divine or uncreated.  That would actually cause me some concern.  I would much rather have agreement with those that were disciples of John and the early Christians that died for t…[Read more]

Finally, I get to Athanasius to see what he says about the term 'firstborn' and he agrees that by calling the Son the First-born, God shows that He is the offspring of the Father and not a creature. Quote 3. He is then by nature an Offspring, perfect from the Perfect, begotten before all the hills (Prov. viii. 25), that is before every rational…[Read more]

Hi Mike,We talked about this when we were discussing the 'arm of the Lord' and I saw the Son as the 'outstretched Arm of the Lord.' Since then, many early church father's mention the Son as the 'Arm.' So, in that way, I do believe that the Father was giving credit to His Son without revealing Him as His Son which was to come much later. Also,…[Read more]

Dennison,Whew you did write a long post at the beginning of this thread. I agree with much of what you say. I certainly agree that the Son was not created or a part of the created beings. I do not agree that He was appointed though as you state here:Quote Psalm 89:27 I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the…[Read more]

Pierre,I don't know what you are asking me? Can you restate your question?