Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,22:02)Kathi, In Acts 4, Peter and John pray to God.  This is the first line of their prayer.  Tell me, who do you think THEY thought the Creator was?24When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and e…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,21:57)Kathi:Quote Mike,Where did I ever say that because Eusebius said it therefore it is?I apologize, for you did not say those words.  What I meant, and what I should have posted, was “You ACT LIKE if Eusebius said it……”Kathi, I'm tired and have no patience for these word games tonight.Scripture says in two…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,16:54)Kathi:Quote Mike,I am sure your setting aside so carelessly what the early church fathers wrote is not pleasing to God if they were His laborers and worked for Him. Whether they were His laborers is what we need the Spirit to discern. The Spirit is telling me that if they start writing things that blatantly…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,17:06)Kathi:Quote Mike,Eusebius certainly did say that the Son and the Father were the creator so therefore, the Son was not a creation.  You say, “Eusebius said it, therefore it is.”  I say, “Scripture said it, therefore it is.”  Do you not see the difference?Kathi:Quote C'mon Mike, you know that the way Jesus is…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 19 2010,19:35)LU,No, first I knew the son, then I knew God the Father through the son, So, USING the son to get what I want ?  I would serve God even if there was no such thing as heaven or hell, as I have said before, I dont love God in that way. I love God because He loved me. Even if there was only five days left in my…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 19 2010,19:32)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 20 2010,11:11)Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 19 2010,17:07)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2010,09:54)Acts 20:29-30 NWT29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak t…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 19 2010,17:07)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2010,09:54)Acts 20:29-30 NWT29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.2 Thes 2:7, 9-12 N…[Read more]

Those are good words Shimmer, but it almost sounds like you are using Jesus to get what you want (God). Are we supposed to have fellowship with just one of them or both of them? Have you ever felt used in order for someone to gain something? That doesn't feel too great, does it? Our relationship is to be first with the Son and then He leads us…[Read more]

Mike,Eusebius certainly did say that the Son and the Father were the creator so therefore, the Son was not a creation. you wrote:Quote Then Adam cannot be a son of God, right? But Luke says he is. And if a creation can be a son of God, then Jesus can surely be a creation, right? C'mon Mike, you know that the way Jesus is the Son of God is…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 19 2010,02:20)I would like to add this Picture so we can see what we are talking about.  Ignore the trees that are like cut down.This is the way i look at it.  We see a Tree.The first things you can see are the simple features like the bark, the branches, the fruit, the color green.  This is the parts we will be ab…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,13:20)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 19 2010,16:36)Hi Mike,I don't see Ignatius calling the Son a creation or Polycarp either.  Why do you think that is?But you DO see Eusebius calling him a creature…….so what's your point?  I don't really care what your early church fathers say Kathi.  WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE SA…[Read more]

Mike,Athanasius pretty well captures the meaning of firstborn of all creation:Quote 3. He is then by nature an Offspring, perfect from the Perfect, begotten before all the hills (Prov. viii. 25), that is before every rational and intelligent essence, as Paul also in another place calls Him ‘first-born of all creation’ (Col. i. 15). But by cal…[Read more]

Mike,You know that you and Eusebius aren't in agreement.  He worships the Son as God and he says that the Father and the Son are the creator.  If anyone calls the Son a creature and then worships Him and thinks of Him as the creator with the Father, it is more likely with the idea of His being a person, not as a created being.  What does be…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 18 2010,22:36)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 19 2010,12:41)It seems that you are not trying to understand, Mike.  You can't even admit that you can see my point of view.  Why is that?  Just the fact that you have changed the word from trunk to branch and tree to bush is telling that you are not wanting to show understanding.  I…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 19 2010,03:04)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 19 2010,03:42)Hi Keith and Mike,I see that you are discussing 'today' again.  I would like to mention that somewhere outside of our realm there is no night, just day as far as I can tell.Rev 21:23-2523 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the…[Read more]

Hi Mike,I don't see Ignatius calling the Son a creation or Polycarp either. Why do you think that is?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 18 2010,19:15)Kathi:Quote Hi Mike,The first offshoot of the first tree is not a part of the group of the offshoots of the bushes.  All offshoots are not equal  But scripture clearly says it is…..believe what you want.  I agree that all other trees are not even or equal.  God is the biggest tree.  Jesus is the second bigg…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,I am having a new word picture develop in my mind during the last 24 hours and I thought that you might be able to relate to it also. Picture a big tall palm tree which has an offshoot tree coming off of it. The offshoot represents that which is with God (the parent tree) and is God (another tree as an offshoot-the begotten God).…[Read more]

Hi Keith and Mike,I see that you are discussing 'today' again. I would like to mention that somewhere outside of our realm there is no night, just day as far as I can tell.Rev 21:23-2523 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by…[Read more]

Hi Mike,The first offshoot of the first tree is not a part of the group of the offshoots of the bushes. All offshoots are not equal See the Son would be the first offshoot of all offshoots but He would be an offshoot of something that always existed, the rest would be the offshoots of a different kind…bushes. Get the picture?Also, do you…[Read more]