Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2010,22:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 30 2010,13:37)The Son is not given the title of 'Creator' or 'Co-creator' but He is given the credit, so with or without the title mentioned, He is said to have created all things.Jesus is NEVER given the credit of creation.  The closest the scriptures ever come to saying anything…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 29 2010,11:48)LU,I see that you can find no response to the questions and suggestion posted at the top of this page.Any reason why?JA,The purpose of this thread is to post writings of the early ante- nicene church father's in regards to the title “firstborn of all creation.” Read through the thread and notice what the…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,21:37)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2010,19:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,16:23)So, the Father and the Son were part of the act of creation, the created beings were part of the act of creation also.  Just sayin' is all.Hi Kathi,God created cows.  Is God a part of the “group of cows”?God ALONE c…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 29 2010,22:04)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,23:29)Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 29 2010,00:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,23:02)Mike,Quote 1.  The “firstborn” of any group is ALWAYS a part of that group.  So Jesus MUST be a part OF creation in order to be the firstborn OF creation.He is part of the creation in that He p…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2010,19:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,16:23)So, the Father and the Son were part of the act of creation, the created beings were part of the act of creation also.  Just sayin' is all.Hi Kathi,God created cows.  Is God a part of the “group of cows”?God ALONE created……scripture says so plain and clear.  He ch…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 29 2010,19:43)LU,You are a pointless poster. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about – I'm done with pointless arguments from you.You have nothing to say and are posting nonesense just to say you posted something… that is not of any value to anyone – not even to yourself except to say there is no limit you…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 29 2010,18:45)If Jesus created the Angels, then the Angels are the Sons and Daughters of Jesus.And Human being s then are Sons and Daughters of Jesus.Yet Scriptures says otherwise, Kathi.Kathi… Draw a picture – please – draw a diagram – you will see that your theory doesn't fit. You would have to FORCE the pieces to…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 29 2010,14:30)LU,It is as I thought.There is nothing in what you wrote that in anyway refutes what I have said.Colossians? What do you see in Colossians that is refutical, so to speak?JA,Seriously? Col 1:16-17 clearly tells you who created all things in heaven and on earth and that in that creator, all things hold…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 29 2010,00:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,23:02)Mike,Quote 1.  The “firstborn” of any group is ALWAYS a part of that group.  So Jesus MUST be a part OF creation in order to be the firstborn OF creation.He is part of the creation in that He performed the act of creation with His Father.  The creator is definitely pa…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2010,00:09)Kathi,I'm into some heavy stuff with the “brain trust” of WJ and SF here.  If you're going to divert the discussion, then at least have the good sense that God gave you to not make a claim that our Creator Jehovah is also a part “of creation”. peace and love,mikeMike,You gotta keep up Here is what the word…[Read more]

Mike,Quote 1. The “firstborn” of any group is ALWAYS a part of that group. So Jesus MUST be a part OF creation in order to be the firstborn OF creation.He is part of the creation in that He performed the act of creation with His Father. The creator is definitely part of the creation account. He is the Firstborn of all creation as the…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 28 2010,21:14)LU,Where does it say that 'Jesus' created the Angels?Angels are ETERNAL – Angels do not die – are immortal Spirits.Please show me otherwise (Please Don't try because You can't without being deceitful)Angels are Spirit Sons of GOD – not Spirit Sons of Jesus. You surely must have read Job … and also in Genesis…[Read more]

You're welcome Mike, I thought you might have needed that…smile!

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 28 2010,19:12)This is all so funny yet adjunct to a truth.LU, you rightly say that ALL was within YHWH God from the from Everlasting. This I have been exposing for so long – how is it it is revealed here as some revelation?That “All was within God” does not take away the fact that “he who became Jesus – And EVERYTHING ELSE”…[Read more]

Mike,I would say that this is supportive of your view of Micah 5:2. It mentions the combination of Hebrew words to cause them to be a superlative:Quote So what are the particulars of these two words that are being piled together? Looking at 'olam first, we see that it is a word which, when used to describe past events, refers to things that are…[Read more]

Keith,I have never said that I accept the Athanasian Creed in full, lets get that straight.I do agree with the Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed.I do agree in part with the Athanasian Creed though.Eternally begotten generally seems to mean that He was begotten from eternal substance of the Father during eternity and not during a time in the…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 28 2010,15:06)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2010,12:52)Think Pierre!Kathyyes i think that's why i am,if i would not think i would not be.but there is a greater I AM than me that i fallow because i am because he is God and because of his son i could be what i am ,Kathy did you ever wander of what live is worth if you do not…[Read more]

Think Pierre!

Keith,With comments like this from Athanasius, I see there is the word 'begat' and the word 'offspring.' I see that it was the Father who begat the Son and the Son is not only called the Son but also an offspring. This is not a 'begotten by designation or predestination.'Quote Well, then, the Word of God created all things, not being a creature,…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 25 2010,07:29)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 21 2010,01:34)t8,I really enjoyed this!  I'm not sure what being a member here has done to my time perspective but I would bet that it has affected it.  Thanks for putting this up!Thanks.But looks like you already saw it.Hi t8,I saw it here first and thought it was interesting so I posted it o…[Read more]