Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,17:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,18:31)Pierre,Sorry, those words aren't in those scriptures.KathiActually, they are Kathi.”created me as the first of His works””firstborn of every creature”  (who created every creature?)”beginning of the creation BY GOD”  (whose creation is Jesus the beginning of?)Mike,Prov 8…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2012,17:31)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,16:19)Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god Pierre?KathiKathiOver all of creation ,means what to you ?Firstborn ,means…[Read more]

Mike,Define 'beings' for me.Also, Mike there were two who were actively involved in creation. The Father and the Son together with their Holy Spirit. I know you have a hard time admitting that Jesus was actively involved in creation because it was made through Him. The verses that credit the Son as making all things use the active voice. He did…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,11:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29)Wakeup,Welcome to HN!You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  Angels cannot die either. Christ was made lower than the angels so He could suffer death. He was…[Read more]

Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god Pierre?Kathi

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,21:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,13:16)Marty,We can see the deity nature in Christ by the miraculous works that He does, His character and the words that He speaks which come to fulfillment and His resurrection.  The disciples knew that Christ knew everything and had the power to do anything, i.e. walk on water,…[Read more]

Toby,The context of my statement was towards the original nature, not the born again status.I hope that clears that up for you. Man was not begotten of God in their original begettal. See?God bless,Kathi

Pierre,If they were in there, time would not make a difference If those words were in scriptures then you would be able to quote scripture that has those exact words and make them bold for us all to see but you can't do that. The scriptures will not change with time, Pierre, they are already written and they do not say what you claim. Sorry.Kathi

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,18:00)kathisorry to for not have seen clearly what you add written ,but it does not change the fact that Christ is the first of Gods creation ,but I do understand that you cannot see it or understand it or wanted to understand it ,so we will see if our teachings will pass the test of God through his judgement , and…[Read more]

Marty,We can see the deity nature in Christ by the miraculous works that He does, His character and the words that He speaks which come to fulfillment and His resurrection. The disciples knew that Christ knew everything and had the power to do anything, i.e. walk on water, calm the sea simply by commanding it, healing the blind and ill, forgiving…[Read more]

Pierre,Sorry, those words aren't in those scriptures.Kathi

Pierre,1. I never said that the Son was the light on day four, I was talking about the light of day one.  If you are going to correct me on what I write, please read what I write carefully.2.  Col 1:15, you use the correct translation of 'over all creation.'  Jesus is also called “Lord of all.”  Neither one of those verses say that He was cre…[Read more]

Pierre,Where does scripture say that, “the Son is the first of His creation?”You are changing scripture to fit your bias, imo.Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2012,10:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 14 2012,13:22) Quote (mikeboll @ 64)Anyone who has ever existed, except for God Himself, is a creation of God.Another point of view:  Anyone who has ever existed, except God the Father and God the Son together with their Holy Spirit, is a creation of THEM.Now if you could only find a…[Read more]

Mike,you said:Quote How does one who is the image OF another also BE that other?You still haven't understood that trinitarians or myself are speaking of more than one person, both who are God by nature, united as one also by nature, a perfect nature. If one perfect being begats another perfect being, naturally they would be the same nature and…[Read more]

Mike,I do admire how you can have so many conversations going on at one time and keep everyone's perspective straight, some of the time anyway. In this case, you forget that I do agree that the Son of God was born first (and last for that matter). So nothing I have said is contrary to that. Even see that understanding in what I said in my last…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 14 2012,18:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 11 2012,16:02)Hi Marty,I appreciate your time, really.  Something that I don't believe you understand is that…BECAUSE Jesus is the Son of God, that is why He is also God like His Father.  Together with their Holy Spirit, they are united as one God to us.  Perfect Father begat perfect So…[Read more]

Mike,Quote Show me how the NETNotes scholars deductively reasoned from actual grammatical proof that 1:15 is a genitive of subordination.I did, I showed you what the scholars said in the NET notes and you know that His Father is God, the Father, creation is NOT His Father… Now, do you have a scholar that says how it 'can't' be the 'genitive of…[Read more]

Mike,The words 'my only begotten son' means that Jesus was begotten as an offspring, not a creation. It is your bias that attests to Him being a creation, not scriptures.Quote Anyone who has ever existed, except for God Himself, is a creation of God.Another point of view: Anyone who has ever existed, except God the Father and God the Son…[Read more]

Mike,It is the words “My ONLY BEGOTTEN SON” that prohibits Him from also being a creation. When the Father said, “My ONLY” He didn't mean “My first.”Kathi