Thanks William, so does the manifestation have a mind and will of its own apart from the Father, before Mary?Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,21:18)Do you get this, Mike?Acts 4, Kathi.  Bottom of page 5.Mike,That question requires a yes or a no. You are avoiding the obvious…just admit it so we never have to discuss it again…one simple acknowledgement Mike…yes or no? If no, then there is no point of moving on…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:03)Kathi and jammin,I'm waiting for your 5 answers to the post at the bottom of page 5.  (I've gone back and numbered them after Nick showed me he couldn't count.    Just kidding, Nick)Mike,First we need you to get this, that firstborn does not translate as first created and Rev 3:14 does not say 'beginning cr…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:04)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,21:02)Mike,Once the cord is cut the baby is still dependent on the mother or a caretaker…for several years.For oxygen and blood, Kathi?Mike,Babies in the womb are individuals, not independent but still the baby is an individual before birth. After birth the baby is dependent…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:00)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,20:53)Mike,Rev 3:14 does not say that He is the beginning creation of the creation of God. It says that He is the beginning of the creation of God. You have to add words to come up with your fallacy.What are you talking about, Kathi?  This is what I meant by “mundane”.Unless I…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,21:46)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,20:40)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:30)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:06)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:57)Kathi,When you were born, you were created.  You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of…[Read more]

Mike,Quote I won't argue the mundane with you any more.Great, there is no point to argue it or keep claiming that what you are claiming since it clearly doesn't say what you claim. If you keep claiming this then you will have to be shown that you are claiming falsely. Learn.

Mike,Rev 3:14 does not say that He is the beginning creation of the creation of God. It says that He is the beginning of the creation of God. You have to add words to come up with your fallacy.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:37)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:12)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:03)That's EXACTLY what I said, Kathi.  I said that EVEN IN situations like David's, where “firstborn” wasn't literal, but used to show preeminence, he was STILL a member OF the group of which he was appointed the firstborn.Mike,He…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:30)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:06)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:57)Kathi,When you were born, you were created.  You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of God.Mike,I existed before I was born by about 9 months.Kathi,Read the word I capped.…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:03)That's EXACTLY what I said, Kathi.  I said that EVEN IN situations like David's, where “firstborn” wasn't literal, but used to show preeminence, he was STILL a member OF the group of which he was appointed the firstborn.Mike,He wasn't appointed as the 'firstborn of all kings'. Scripture doesn't say those…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:57)Kathi,When you were born, you were created.  You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of God.Mike,I existed before I was born by about 9 months. Birth is not a creation but a bringing forth of what already existed for a time. God's design for men and…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:54)Kathi,Psalm 89:27 Young's Literal TranslationI also first-born do appoint him, Highest of the kings of the earth.English Standard Version (©2001)And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.Darby Bible TranslationAnd as to me, I will make him firstborn, the highest of the kings of…[Read more]

Big fallacy of the Jesus is created group is they equate firstborn with first created yet it doesn't:Firstborn is not translated from the word/words that would be translated 'first created.' Yet they want to lay down a doctrine on this fallacy. Dangerous stuff guys! Was Jesus the 'first created from the dead'? Scripture doesn't say that either,…[Read more]

Mike,Where does it say the bolded part that you have in quotes, in scripture?”And even in the metaphorical use of “firstborn”, like when God made David “the firstborn of the kings of the earth“, it is understood that while David was not the literal first king of the earth, he is still a member of the group called “kings of the earth”.”Thanks,Kathi

David, Annie and Irene,I found an ancient Syriac document that contains what the Apostles were led to write up for the instructions for the church right after they received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. I am just quoting it in part since it is a little long to quote the whole thing. It does talk about worshiping on Sunday, celebrating the Epiphany…[Read more]

Hi William,So I think you are saying that the Son is not really the Son of God the Father but an image of the manifestation of God the Father as much as possible within this realm. Is that correct?Blessings,Kathi

Hi Dew,What has kept you from posting on the forum until now? There are probably a lot of 'readers only' who are members and I was just wondering, or maybe you have posted but under an alias, idk. I like HN mainly because of the layout. I have looked at other forums but they are harder to find things and to see the flow of things, imo. I, like…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ Mar. 24 2012,23:55)Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,05:56)Quote you have just judged ALL Christians that celebrate Christmas as the story of Jesus' birth –LUChristmas (the holiday on Dec 25?) IS NOT THE STORY OF JESUS BIRTH!So, if I am guilty of judging that as being the case, then so be it.  It's not the day of his birth.The story of…[Read more]

Quote (david @ Mar. 24 2012,13:57)LU, looking at history, did the earliest Christians celebrate his birth?If not, why do you think that is?David,From what I can tell, birthdays weren't mentioned as being celebrated by the Hebrews. Neither were wedding anniversaries for that matter but does that keep you from celebrating them?  In ancient times…[Read more]