No you don't Mike. If you truly believed that your heavenly Father existed from eternity, you would believe in an eternal Son.

Mike,Quote Because the scriptures I know about speak of Jesus having origins “from days of old”, and being the “firstborn of every creature”, and being “the beginning of the creation by God”, etc.And you do not understand ANY of those things accurately, imo.

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,23:59)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,17:48)This should get you a tile. All sorts of lies here. Reader please note:This comment is so full of lies it is awful and the moderator is so breaking the HN rules and the other moderator agrees with him. Both moderators are corrupt on HN. Both misrepresent me terribly and get away…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,23:47)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,17:40)t8,I see that you have commentary about my post but you did not make a specific choice. Which choice is most correct? #1#2#3#4Kathi, I am not sure that any are correct because I cannot tell if there are definite articles or not. If you asked this question from a biblical verse, I…[Read more]

Mike,Are you afraid that if the 'Word' from John 1:1 existed eternally, then your theology is challenged?

Mike,A person can exist before they are named. Being named doesn't cause the 'existence' of their person. Did John the Baptist exist before he was named 'John?' Yes or No. Was he John before he was named 'John' in his father's mind?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,20:42)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,12:09)We are both wanting to exalt the Father and Son and Spirit to their proper places, jb2u. I place all three (I didn't say all three persons) right up there at the God Almighty level together as an eternal unity.I place Jesus at the “Servant of God Most High” level………[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 25 2013,20:26)Lightenup.. please do not misquote me. I never compared Jesus to the prophets/disciples!!!! I was pointing out that just because Jesus did “God things” does not mean that he was God or equal to God. To prove that point, I stated that the prophets/disciples also did “God things” and they are, in fact, not God or…[Read more]

Mike,Ignatius is saying:The Word was eternal, not proceeding forth from silence. I take that to mean…there wasn't a period of 'no word' (silence) before the eternal word proceeded forth.

Mike,So can you admit that Jesus was possibly given the name Jehovah by His Father?

This is good from Ignatius, the one discipled by John the Evangelist who wrote John 1:1. I would think that He would have a proper understanding of whether the 'Word' that was in the beginning was 'made' or not. Quote Chapter VII.—Beware of false teachers.For some are in the habit of carrying about the name in wicked guile, while yet they p…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,21:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2013,21:47)Ignatius in other writings calls the Son, the eternal Word. Do you believe that the Son was the eternal Word, t8?Did he say Jesus IS the eternal Word……… or HAS BEEN the eternal Word from eternity?Because I believe what Paul wrote:  Since Jesus died and was raised,…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,21:33)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2013,21:03)Mike,you asked:Quote Do you agree that John 1:1 speaks of TWO gods, one of whom was with the other?  YES or NO?Yes…………Quote Do you agree that the theos in part b is “the uncreated cause of all things”?  YES or NO?Both theos are together the uncreated cause of a…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,22:19)Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,03:39)Case closed because you ignore a huge glaring plank and concentrate on a speck that even if it was written as Jesus only is not even proof that Jesus is the Most High God.Amen to that!  Unfortunately, Kathi also does the same thing with the scriptures.  In her never-ending s…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,17:50)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,09:49)According to the words in the quote box, “The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans”, which do you think is the most correct answer:#1 Jesus is NOT identified as our God in any way.#2 ONLY Jesus IS identified as our God.#3 ONLY the Father is identified as our God.#4 The Father IS…[Read more]

Kerwin,The Hebrew word for root in Isa 11 that speaks of the roots of Jesse and later the root of Jesse in verse 10, is found in 33 verses in the OT. I will provide you with a link to this list and you tell me which verse uses the definition of 'root' that you are using, ok?http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/strongs_8328.htm

Kerwin,Do you believe that ALL of Jesse's descendants are also Jesus' descendants? Or does some of Jesse's descendants refuse to believe in Jesus as the Messiah?

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,04:39)Kathi, I don't have access to he Greek Text of Ignatius, and I likely do not have the time to dissect his text even if I had. However, I have already covered both sides of the coin in a previous post and neither is saying that Jesus is the Most High God. And I have further proof which you have obviously overlooked in…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,03:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,18:56)So, I'll choose #4.4) Judas was devil-like.Yes you are right. Judas was devil-like.But, apologies. I made a mistake with option 3. It should have read, 3) That Judas had the character or nature of the DevilI was trying to convey that he had some of the Devil's qualities in that…[Read more]

jb2u,Thank you, I think.Yes, you can see from John 5 that:Jesus is definitely telling the Jews that:He is NOT making Himself equal to God, the Father.He IS making Himself equal to God, the Son and that apart from Him there would be no eternal salvation possible.You want to compare Jesus to prophets and disciples?What prophet/disciple chooses who…[Read more]